Passing Through | Larry Clark

so on June 20th 1974 the Los Angeles Sentinel ran a brief article announcing that a new film was being made in Los Angeles the article began quote Larry Clark 29 director writer cinematographer film editor still photographer and currently developing film Workshop classes at the performing arts society of Los Angeles has started production on a featurelength drama passing through if we add painter to the sentinel's descriptive list of Clark's artistic practice and Community engagement we have an even Fuller picture of the many facets of his career that we'll be celebrating and exploring over the course of this three-day series devoted to Clark's films those he's directed and those he's contributed to beginning with tonight the incomparable Masterpiece passing through we would be thrilled to be screening these films under any circumstances but we are especially honored to be doing so this weekend with Larry Clark here in person at the Wilder so I want to just welcome Larry to the theater [Applause] it's a real honor to have him back and all of the screenings in this series will be followed by a Q&A with Larry we are grateful to him for making the time to be with us and I want to encourage you all to come back tomorrow night and Sunday to see the films and engage with him afterwards as you enter the theater here you may have seen on screen a selection of Clark's paintings and photographs which we'll be highlighting each night as part of our pre-show presentation as you walk through the lobby we hope you also stop stop to explore materials on display from the recently processed Larry Clark papers that illuminate passing through and its International exhibition history Larry deposited his paper archives with UCLA and the work and the work of preparing the collection was conducted through the center of primary research and training at the UA Library special collections a program that pairs graduate students with a variety of academic disciplines with archival projects that match their interests and expertise cfpt scholar Maggie T has an extensive background in film studies and is a current mlis student at UCLA focusing on archival studies and moving image archival practices he spent the summer processing and describing the Larry Clark papers and developed Outreach efforts to support Discovery and access to this critical collection I'd like to ask Maggie to come up now and share a little bit about the collection and the work that has gone into making it available for researchers Maggie do you want to come on [Applause] up hi everyone and good evening and welcome uh again I am Maggie thank you Paul for the introduction and for the last few months I've been processing the Larry Clark papers and it has just been such an honor to work with Larry Clark's materials and it's been a really tremendous learning experience I hope some of you were able to pick up a copy of the booklets that I've prepared they'll also be available after tonight's show and probably the rest of the weekend unless we run out and uh I hope you'll be able to take a sneak peek into this collection because it's just incredible this collection ction focuses primarily on materials surrounding tonight's showing of passing through including beautifully printed posters brochures and press clippings from the film's Decades of touring the International Film Festival circuit following its release in 1977 passing through has been referred to as one of the greatest Jazz films of all time music particularly jazz is a medium that truly crosses all Geographic Language and Cultural boundaries after spending the summer working with this collection of passing through materials it became clear that this masterpiece like great jazz has transcended all of these differences to profoundly move audiences from all backgrounds and all walks of life positive press has followed the film around the globe to places like Somalia Cuba the USSR India and Burkina Faso this collection is so important as a look into the radical black film making of Africa during the late 1970s and into the 1980s not only did Larry Clark make phenomenal films but he also made a difference in film making as an art form there are portions of this collection that include materials on Larry Clark assisting the creation of the first ever Film School in Burkina Faso there's also materials that discuss the state of African film making including records of how different African nations were working collaboratively to create their own National film making Traditions independent of the major Hollywood and European systems these writings are incredible and they're unlike anything I've ever seen or learned about before they hold extraordinary research value and I'm proud proud to share that they're all now available for viewing by the public and research at ucil library special collections passing through and its impact and its reach cannot go forgotten nor can Larry Clark's hard work in supporting the development of African and black diaspora film making and I'm so thrilled that this valuable slice of film history is now available for public access and research use with that I'd like everyone to give a warm welcome to the incredible Larry Clark [Applause] thank you so much uh I'm glad to see so many people here tonight in a theater after years of seclusion um passing through was made to be seen in a theater context not on VHS or DVD or online and that's how I wanted the film to be shown um and um I'm so happy to see so many people here uh tonight to look at the film I'm not going to say much uh we'll talk afterwards about the film and the making of the film and other issues um so I'm gonna be short Larry Clark is a filmmaker and professor of film at San Francisco State University born in Ohio he attended Miami University in Oxford where he quote raised a lot of hell as the president of the black student union in 1970 he drove his Volkswagen Bug across Route 66 to Los Angeles where he enrolled in film school at UCLA there he became a central member of a group of innovative black filmmakers including Charles brunett Hy gima and Julie Dash who came to be known collectively as the LA Rebellion Clark's uncle was renowned jazz pianist Sunny Clark his father who worked as a mailman played Sachs and taught Latin dance and his mother who was a house keeper sing opera so it's fitting that his first feature passing through is often cited as one of the best jazz films ever made in addition to passing through uh Larry uh direct Larry Clark directed the 1974 long form short film uh As Above So Below about the political Awakening of a black Army veteran playing tomorrow night followed on Sunday by Clark's second feature cutting horse from 2002 a modern-day Western about the ambitious dreams of a struggling African-American and Mexican-American horse trainers Clark has received numerous Awards including the Oscar Miss show award for cinematography he travels the world exclusively or extensively often at the invitation of major festivals and retrospectives it's my great honor to Welcome to the stage Larry Clark [Applause] thanks so much for joining us it's a really pleasure to have you here so thank you so I wanted to start um at the beginning um you've said in the past that passing through was not a film that was made and brought to the community it was rather a film made in the black community by the black community and that kind of engaged production practice was sort of something that really set apart the films of the LA Rebellion filmmakers partly of a necessity but more importantly uh as a matter of political principle the idea of you were bringing media production practices out of the school into the communities to transform both can you talk a little bit about the origins of the film and how how everybody came together or how you brought everybody together to make it in those cont in that context uh well um when I was first admitted to uh uh UCLA in the film department I promised myself that I would have one film at UCL one foot at UCLA and other the foot in in the community uh because the the subject matter was going to be uh such that uh I really needed Community Support I couldn't rely solely on film students uh for crew and all of that although they were willing but they all had their own projects their own work so there was limited amount of time that people could actually afford to uh use on someone else's film so I set up a film workshop at the Performing Art Society Los Angeles which is on 87th in Vermont and the person who was the artistic director of uh we called it pasus for short uh was Van Whitfield and uh when I went to the performan art Society uh to propose this uh project this film Workshop uh I had never met van before but I he listened patiently then when I got to the end of my spiel about how I wanted to do this film Workshop in the community Community he said well listen he said uh I was a student film student at UCLA and he he told me the year he was one of the first uh African-Americans to graduate from the film department this is years and years ago so he understood what my struggles were going to be so he said I could set up this film workshop and mo a lot of the actors and and in my films came from the workshop Nathaniel Taylor and um and many of them and uh so he understood clearly uh what I was trying to do and he said also that he would uh give some money for films which I thought was amazing so I set up the film workshop and um a lot of uh young people came through the workshop that uh wanted to make films and didn't necessarily want to work in Hollywood or go to film school but they were interested in film and so there was one person in particular that was really talented that was rodri young he did this film and also along with George gtis and uh as above so below so the the the the community was just it was a no-brainer you know it was it it it was uh um so I you know I would learn something at UCLA and then take UCLA's equipment down the 87 in Vermont without them knowing it and and teach people there you know and the the best people kind of rose to the top people who were serious stayed around people who weren't you know they sort of went their own way so I had a a complete crew at pasor it was a very good crew I mean it was these they really good good good Craftsman good crew and um and also had the actors um that were in the uh um in the theater and some of the people in this film they kind of got their start like for example Marley Gibbs who was uh The Jeffersons this was our first time on film that little short thing you know and Nathaniel Taylor had appeared in a couple things but as mayor rol when I saw him uh I knew he was the actor but I mean he wasn't even on stage he was on a ladder putting up lights and and I just saw this guy come down the ladder he was like a cat you know I said this is the guy I need for my films you know and uh um so uh yeah so the the community was you know uh for example I I needed a restaurant and um I went to talk I saw a restaurant that I really liked talked to an owner never saw her before in my life she didn't know who I was I mentioned that I was at UCLA uh working on my Master's Degree and she was of that generation of of of uh African-Americans that came up from the M Great Migration and the the mattra then was get your education I remember growing up hearing that all the time with the old folks my grandfather my grandmother um all the was said get your education that you hear that almost every day and so because I was a student at UCLA she said look I could use the restaurant I think it was on a Saturday or Sunday when they were closed and um she said I'll give you the keys and we and so we got there and she set out a couple apple pie uh cherry pies for us you know and I told the crew I said look we got to leave this place better than we found it you know uh and which we did you know and and and another time I needed uh iron Rod bed and I went to a thrift store and um I mentioned that I was a student at UCL and the department and and the woman said oh I didn't have to buy it just I could take it and when I finish with it I could bring it back so it was like the community really participated in all kinds of ways not only acting and the music uh uh props you know uh and we that was consistent with my films and with some of the other films you know that Charles Bernett for example he organized his block it was like the seven sumurai you know he organized his block to go to war you know and so the kids were all from his block the actors were from his block and so that's kind of like the way we uh found it necessary to make films and it worked out for us because U you know it was yeah it was a film by the community you know we and they took ownership of it too one of your key collaborators in passing through but also As Above So Below comp composer and jazz artist Horus tabscott um he was also very focused on um mentorship and and and engaging you've described him as a in an interview once as a papa Harris like figure can can you talk about how you first met um Horus and and his impact on you yeah well uh I had just finished uh as above so below and I needed some music and so um there was a a guy in the community I didn't know him very well he was a friend of a friend and he wanted he was curious he wanted to see what I was doing so I invited him out to the I don't know why I invited him out you know but I did you know funny how things happen you know he just say oh yeah come on I I'll show you what I'm doing and uh I had just completed the film but I didn't have music and so the person that was opposed to score it came out and uh at the end of the film the person was going to score it said well uh I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna score this film but just my kazoo and this guy that I didn't know just went ballistic he said you can't do that to our film like that you know and uh so he said there's somebody wants you to meet you know Horus Tapscott so I met Horus and we live in the same Community you know same not that far from each other and so I met him and and how many know ever been around horse tap Scott raise your hands anybody in here well he's back if you in the back was it somebody where someone raiseed their hand in the back yeah well horse is the type of guy he just kind of talks a matter of fact way and so I said yeah I'm looking for someone to do music for my film and do you know any people in La that might be able to help and he said well you know you don't have to look out there you can look in here in your community there are people right here in your community that could help you with your film you know and so he invited me out to uh to the uh Ark where they were practicing it was a church and um I went out and it was all these it was like NOS Arcam Museum Ians and I I went out and there was the fabulous musicians they were all woodshedding and learning and a lot of them went on to be famous musicians you know Arthur blle I don't know if you know anybody Arthur ble and Roberto Miranda and all those guys and so he was doing something similar to what I was doing but only with music you know and he had been doing it for a longer period of time than I had so that's how I met Horus and he did the music for as Soo and then he did uh passing through through one of the things I always find so striking about passing through and As Above So Below is I mean they're so deeply rooted in their Community the local place and space where these stories are being told but you always have an eye on the global struggle you always have a lot I mean Liberation struggles in Africa the Attica Uprising you're always connecting what's happening in the neighborhood to the the the larger anti-colonialist struggles anti-racist struggles C can you talk about how that how that Vision sort of came together for you uh basketball uh I I I transferred my senior year from high school here in LA to uh a school called East Tech in uh uh Cleveland Ohio and they were a basketball Powerhouse they had won state championship City championships they were ranked number two in the country and I made the team and so word spread through the high school that someone from Hollywood made made the team you know uh but the coach uh uh was a really interesting guy his name was Joe how and I went to my first demonstration uh with the coach we were uh picketing U uh this is in 1962 we were picketing at wiw worth because there were picketing pick Martin Luther King was picketing Ms in the South so and so that kind of opened my up to social protest he also taught photography and so he implored all the basketball players to take his photograph photography class because then he knew we would get at least onea so I took the the the photography course and uh you know every photographer has the same story that you're in the dark room and that photograph comes up and you're kind of like it's magic and you kind of hooked you know and so I I got involved with uh uh photography uh my senior in high school and I carried on into uh uh my undergraduate years at Miami University although I didn't major in photography but I um there were I had some really good mentors and and and uh interesting guys in uh uh at Miami University it was a guy named Dwayne Phoenix he was kind of like my my mentor we used to call him feni plop plop he was uh very sickly guy he he was he was really sickly he had sickle cell anemia but he's the coolest guy I ever met you know um and uh uh um in fact my roommate is back there he knew FY plop plop he 20 Phoenix he was a really cool guy and so he he he showed me dark room techniques and all of that and so that's how I came about to but I I i' had always been doing art you know from the beginning I was five years old I was paint I wanted to be an artist you know and artist and a cowboy or artist and a fireman or something like that you know and so art was always a part of my uh upbringing in my interest I was really interested to hear in an interview you gave when you when you got accepted at the film school at UCLA you actually um you were you know regular still photographer and doing that work but when you got into the film School you you actually gave away your your still photography equipment you actually you said I'm focusing still photography I'm going to put this behind me I'm focusing on moving images now what was what was your thinking in that well that was one of the stupid things that I've I've done you know every everybody got some stupid stuff that they've done but I I I was in love with photography but when I got into film school I was we talking about Motion Picture not SES but moving moving objects you know and so to break away from photography because I liked it so much I gave away uh um my C in fact I gave my camera to H's girlfriend at the time and uh GRE yeah so I gave away all my steel stuff because I wanted to make a a complete break from steel photography uh I got rid of my television and uh um um to make a clean break from that to go forward that's that's what I had to do you know no I I would not recommend that but that's what I had to do um I have a few more questions and we'll turn it over to the audience so um we have some microphones out there so if you just raise your hands uh one of our ushers will bring you a mic and you can ask your question but um I want to ask you so going back to passing through and the structure of the film I think we can talk about it in terms of shots and cuts and sequences and edits but I've also heard you talk about it in terms of harmonics and accents and improvisation and almost in the way that the film feels more um orchestrated or conducted than directed can you talk a little bit about how the influence of um you know your experience and with music it may impacted how you put the film together and how you structured it a lot of it a stream of Consciousness but also Clarence muse from the first day I met him he always referred to the script as uh uh uh my Opera he said well how you going to do this with this Opera so always talked about it in in that sense you know uh but the thing is it's it's you know um Jazz gives you a lot of create a freeway to think about motion picture in a different way you know in terms of structure you know I'm big on the th act structure but I'm also big on Breaking the 3A structure uh highly GMA call said what do he call the threea structure the tyranny of the 3x structure you know but I'm big on threea structure but you learn the threea structure so you can do other things you can break away from so um um it gave me the possibility to try different things uh just like in in the music sometimes you have a riff and never come back to it but it works in the context of the whole piece you know so there are riffs or accent marks you know and some of it having to do with civil rights movement some of it having to do with the uh uh National Liberation shumas and Angola mosm Beek and guinea Pau you know some of it is just personal you know um and uh uh so that uh yeah so it's it's sort of structured uh in my mind at least uh like music a musician might disagree with me but in my mind it was kind of like like music yeah well there's so many different elements in the film I mean I think you could you could it straddles like a lot of territory in terms of like it's an art film there's some experimental sequences there's documentary footage there's a very you know there's elements of genre the action genre in the film as well um so there's a lot of different elements at play and one of the things I'm always so struck by when I watch it is how moving through all of that very grounded in kind of material critique of like power structures and and um economics of the music industry but also locally there's a there's a there's a undercurrent of of of the immaterial of the spiritual the kind of crescendos at at the end I think which is really quite extraordinary the way that builds through the film can you can you talk about how the interplay between the material and the immaterial the spiritual and the yeah the ecclesiastic elements and the secular elements yeah um that just seem right you know I'm not particularly a religious person you know uh my mother used to always call me a heathen because she's very religious so boy you're just a heathen but uh it just all made sense you know because um there is a spiritual world you know that we really can't understand you know preachers say they understand it but no one really understands that the spiritual world you just have to kind of let it happen you know and embrace it you know and uh let it take you wherever it's going to take you and but you had said in an interview once that I mean there not there's no there's like one specific reference to a yuban deity ocean at the end but you would also talk to the characters about maybe their you know the actors about their characters being sort of related to specific de usually if there's someone in the audience from Brazil they get it right away uh because uh yeah uh uh there's the character oun who's a deity you know um uh the old man I saw is uh Shang go warmac I saw as oon uh Maya I saw as yima you know and nobody needs to know that you know but it just kind of made it make sense for me and the actors knew it too although it never was uh um said or you know um because we had we we did some work acting workshops before you know um some of it was trans listening people from theater to film you know acting for film and uh these these things were brought up in terms of character sort of uh subt was not even subtext because you're not going to pick it up it's it was just for us right you know that we used it you know and if the only clue is the car oceon you know but other than that it was something that we used one more question I'm going to turn it over to the audience there's a I just want to mention this because there's a specific shot in the film it's early on on um when warmac is on the on the beach and and he's going through a sort of series of Ries that sort of Crescendo in this wave shot there's a wave sort of I mean it's a really striking image of this sort of crashing wave but that shot has a particular story where you found that shot is that yeah I I went to the beach every time it was a big storm I would go out to grab my camera and go out to uh uh Santa Monica Pier standing on the end and hope a big wave would come in and these big waves are coming they with Peter out by the time they got to the pier and I was just wasted time so uh I had to uh go to a film library in town I was looking for something and um at the end of the day um uh the person that was in in in in the in in the film Library said well uh is there anything else you might want I said well you know I've been trying to get a big wave you know and and and I've been trying to shoot one I just have if we get a a humongous wave I think it was I said and she says oh wait son just a minute so she went back in the back and she came back and with that big wave you know and what it is is actually an outtake is a shot that they didn't use in the ten commandments so I so I bought [Laughter] it I love it that there's a little bit of Epic Hollywood history like planted into this radical film so let's turn it over to the audience raise your hand and we'll bring a mic to you over here on this side right on the aisle um thank you there's so the film is so rich with so many things I love the beginning uh with all the layers of the piano hand and um all the different things that were overlay and uh there's a lot of red uh coloring in there and I'm very taken with your um sense of color and I and I see it in your painting too in fact when they were you know putting it up at the beginning I was like who is this artist this artist is fantastic I've got to make sure that I ask you know the person who's uh sets up the I know exactly who sets this up who this artist is um so your sense of color is amazing and i' I'd like selfishly I'd like to know is any of your artwork in print or can people get any of that yeah I have a website it's called Larry Clark painter.com great thank yeah I when I was just a little guy I was always uh uh enamored with cubism you know um and I think I was enamored with cubism because I was also enamored with bugs and and things that crawled around that hid and camouflaged themselves and I would as a kid I would walk watch to find the bug in the bushes you know there always something that gave it away you know and so with cubism also it's like there's there's something there and you have to really look to see it you know and so as a kid so this that beginning is sort of uh what Alexander rajio call soft edged cubism which that it really is it's sort of soft edged cubism you know and they use a lot of primary colors and and by the way there's a lot of stuff there that I didn't put there um um in other words with this with the picture and the sound for list the sound first especially Under the Pier Under the Pier I I laid out those tracks each Echo I did I did my editing I laid out those tracks each overlapping uh uh piece of music and then when we mixed it those that sound overlap and set up a harmonic and there was sound there that I didn't put there but the the but the the the music the the the track put some of that sound there it's the same with the the the the images um for this film I use Fujifilm I was the first person to use 16 millimeter Fujifilm in this country uh I was leaving CFI and I saw some some Japanese guys um um by a storefront they had a big science at Fujifilm so I went over and introduced myself you know come by why you know you got to get geny do you know and so they gave me all this film for free uh that I could do experiments with but you couldn't buy Fujifilm in this in the country at that time so they shipped all of my uh film directly from Japan and came in these big gigantic rolls and I had to break it down so um myself rodri young Julie Dash and a kid and Ricky mentioned we did all these tests with this this this footage to see what it would do and so it's it was reversal film The the so the upside is reversal is actually um Fuji is very nice it's beautiful it archives really well you know and also it left uh I I I composed the each instrument where it would leave a lot of black somewhere and that was kind of like a mat so the next image would come in Fairly clean so it just orchestrating the composition the color um and uh uh um the idea of sort of a cubis kind of effect you know uh to get that another question from the audience let's go right in the middle here in this right here hi um it it's on the it's on the same color tip um like from the beginning you had a bunch of red and blues um and you seem to like it ends with like the similar similar like color way at least with like the red background and everything but throughout the whole film um it seems like you're like you lean towards those um colors a lot but you know I don't I just on the same question on the color like if there was anything specific I still like why you like it's just how you feel you know it's just it's art it's just like how you feel I I particularly like primary colors because they pop you know whereas the the complimentary colors they they they give you something different I mean um and and um so yeah it's just a matter of choice you know really it's like do does it please you you know does it please me you know and that's what you know because you making a film if it doesn't please you then why bother you know I mean even though some of it doesn't please you you know sometimes you hit sometimes you miss you know but the it it it it just felt right you know to me question for the let's come down here in the front row here hi thanks for being here um I was really curious about um kind of the local sort of La Jazz scene and um how you know you were participating in that pulling from that and then also um just sort of today like do you still kind of participate in the Jazz scene today where do you see that going um well when I finished this film I had ODed on Jazz and for a couple years I didn't even listen to Jazz and finally I got over it but yeah I you know I listen to a lot of music before you know my father had a really nice album collection you know and and a lot of the the the impetus for the visuals come from album covers front and back you know uh just made sense you know uh but uh yeah so um yeah another question let's go um how about right over here on this side over here yeah thanks again for sharing this film uh I was curious about the uh decision with that rolling haunting piano track it comes on during the scene with the cards it comes on again again uh when he has his sort of solo at the end and during the credits what kind of brought what was the idea there kind of you chose to move with that track it just felt right you know it just felt right and you know I think you just have to go with what you you what you feel is right you know not what people tell you you know uh you try out different things you know you try out different things and uh then what seems to work and you you hope it works for other people you know you don't want to get too much into it that this works for me and so what but you got to also anticipate how it will be received too by other people because ultimately the film is made for someone else it's not made for me but as a as as an artist you also have to to find some pleasure in what you're doing there's a number of recurring motifs in the film and imagery of water imagery recurs a lot and Earth you know recur comes back a lot um were those things that emerged over the course of you know I how did those sort of recurring elements come into the into the work it probably was in the script you know but it's for mood for mood um and in one case uh U where they're in the car and the windshield wipers going back and forth in 16 mm you in 35 mm you can sync up projector and and um um because you have equipment to do I'm talking about back then I'm not talking about now I'm talking about in the 70s but 16 millimeter you couldn't sync that up and so you couldn't sync up the projector with the sound with the picture they didn't have they didn't have the the the the physical things the equipment that you could do that with in 16 you could in 35 so we had to figure out how to do that and so and the water played played a part in this and that um the obviously there's a sink pulse that comes into every building 60 cycles and so that was our sink pulse the just the the electrical pulse that comes into the building so the um uh recorder runs at 60 Cycles uh the projector runs at 60 Cycles we got an electric motor for the camera and so now the camera was running at 60 Cycles so then we queued everything up and uh we had that uh the the the car and then we had the the street behind it I anticipate that at some point that's that that 60 Cycles is only going to last for about maybe a minute and a half or two minutes at most so when you have an effect then the next thing to do is you have to figure out how to hide it because something's always going to go wrong and and and as the sink pulse you lose the sink pulse the projector start p pulsating all right so it looks really fake so the hide it I had the windshield wipers going back and forth and water hitting the windshield so that your eye is in the front as opposed to the back going out the window so we HD the because after a while the the the the the we did lose sink pulse on the projector and if you ever see it again you'll see where it's it's it's pulsating a little bit but because we have the windshield wipers going back and forth It's like a magician you know a magician will be doing something with this hand and doing something with the other hand you know and so we need a distraction so the rain was a distraction the windshield wipers was a distraction so that you wouldn't look at the projector that was sort of fading out of sink in the background time for a couple more questions let's go um way in the back right right there yeah right no behind you in the back gentl right there um so the the film is like literally embedded with political struggle um and there's like the main Narrative of the film is a political struggle and like the afterlife of the film like there's specifically political decisions in terms of where you went um in terms of going to Moscow or in terms of going to Africa for African film festivals for like African political film making struggle going forward and so I was like I'm really curious like how you felt then and how you feel now about the role of the artist and political struggle because it seems really important both in the film but also in terms of your sort of career as an artist well everybody has to make their own choice in terms of what path they follow but art has always been political you know and sometimes people say I want to be apolitical but apolitical is still political in a negative sense you know because art film they propagate something you know it's propaganda it propagates something and it's quite question is what does it propagate you know it propagates ideas you know propagates uh uh information you know uh so I didn't see a distinction between the art and the political and myself you know they all kind of are one thing I think time for one more question let's go over here on this side um yeah you made various references to um parallels between the musical components of the film and other structural elements um the film as composition and I was wondering if the methodology of improvisation used for the music came in in other elements of the construction of the film in any way and if so if there were moments um that you would um say what surprised you and you decided to work with there was a lot of improvisation in in the film itself uh in fact one sequences designed for improvisation and that's the the scene where they're having this the couple are having a tough time you know uh that scene I wrote it and then I put behind it times two so we shot the same film same scene four times differently and and there's and it it it the idea is that in a relationship you might have an issue a problem and you hash it out and and you resolve it you think and then you come back to that same issue again you know and you try to resolve it and and and it's on a different level and and and then couple months later you're back at that same issue you know and and for the them the issue was that he she had taken some steps that some steps of Independence that he was having a hard time doing she said she quit the agency you know and and and so um that sort of that's the underlying problem there because she's done something that he should have done you know she's taking the lead and guys we have a hard time following women we should and so that's what that so there's a lot of improvisation there you know um and uh yeah so there I you know again I said it was sort of stream of Consciousness so there's improvisation for the whole the whole film too you know I had a screenplay but the screenplay was kind of like the guide you know um to to keep the bottom from falling out and so but in the in the in the acting um um in the camera work U it you have to have a to to do improvisation you still have to have a structure otherwise the proposition is going to go off the rails is not going to make any sense you know have the structure so that that allows you to uh to to to have improvisation you know even with the music the music has a head that's very and then musicians go off and then they come back to the tail you know so there's some structure there it's just not something wild you know so it's sort of a structured improvisation throughout the whole film thank you well Larry will be with us tomorrow night for after As Above So Below along with some short films and then on Sunday uh for cutting horse so please come back Larry thank you so much for joining us here tonight it's really amazing