Liberating Hollywood: Women Directors | Joan Tewkesbury

The fact is a lot of these films are really under duress, through neglect. They were not shown a lot, and often times the negatives were in labs that then disappeared. And so, we realize now that it's gonna take a lot of work to really restore these films, so that people will have them to see in another hundred years. So without further ado, Maya Montanez Smukler. [audience applause] Thank you, Chris. I have to - enormous thanks to Chris, for - when I was in that seminar a million years ago, I wrote a very mediocre paper on women directors in the silent era. And so thank you Chris for believing I could get better, and I did. [laughs] Thank you all for coming. This is such a thrill and just a real delight to be able to bring my work with this book "Liberating Hollywood" to the screen and to audiences. An enormous thank you to K.J. Relth, who is a programmer here at UCLA and who worked on this program with me and worked so hard in finding these prints, to speak to what Chris was saying about how difficult, it was to find some of them. And to really make sure that we can ensure their safety, so that future film goers can enjoy them. Tonight, we are starting off with two films by Joan Tewkesbury. And Joan is here with us tonight. [audience applause] So honored to have her here and on our opening night. So please stay for a Q&A. We're starting with "Old Boyfriends". We're gonna do a Q&A with Joan in between, and then we'll follow with "Thieves Like Us". I'd also like to thank Ed and Annie Pressman for helping us with the print that we were able to get and they were an enormous help. So, thank you, both Annie and Ed. A little bit about "Liberating Hollywood" and Hollywood during the 1970s. There is a well-loved mythology about Hollywood during the 70s, that anyone who was young and ambitious and loved movies could make one. And in a lot of ways, that was true. The film industry during the 1970s was going through many industrial, economic, creative adjustments trying to figure out how to make movies for a growing and demanding young audience that had much different taste than their parents' generation. There were many competing production cultures that were intersecting with Hollywood at the time. independent exploitation films like the movies that we're gonna showcase tomorrow. Barbara Peeters' films. An influx of foreign films that were appealing and challenging and invigorating American audiences and filmmakers. Pornography also. So a lot of things were happening in the '70s and Hollywood was really trying to figure out how to stay current. How to make films that were both artistically exciting and also commercial, successful - had successful commercial potential. There also, of course, were the social justice movements that define the '60s and '70s: the civil rights movement, the women's movement, the youth movement, the anti-war movement, the sexual revolution, counterculture, drug culture, rock and roll, etc.. And so, what "Liberating Hollywood" is interested in, is this intersection between the shifting cultural, social, political landscape, and how that intersected with the changing film industry. And so in that moment, there was this opportunity for young filmmakers to enter the film industry in a way that previous generations hadn't before. But, the, the important note is that that access was predominantly for white men. But what started to stand out to me is that because of the influence of the feminist movement changing all areas of American social and political and cultural life, that there was actually a number of women for the first time in generations, who were starting to make feature films. And who were those women? And why were they never talked about? And why were they not commonplace in this mythology about Hollywood during the 1970s? And so that's what "Liberating Hollywood", the book and the series looks to celebrate. And what I found in my research is that there were 16 women, I hope there - I hope I missed some and somebody tells me there were more. But for my years of research, I found 16 women who were making feature films in the United States in the 1970s. And they really ran the gamut. They were folks who made independent films, like "Old Boyfriends" tonight. Who made grindhouse exploitation films like Barbara Peeters and Stephanie Rothman. Folks like Elaine May, who were able to work in the studio system. And so there was a really diverse selection of filmmakers and, and they are such an important part of American cinema in the 1970s. The, the category of woman filmmaker is forced. It's a fake category. We are forced to use it because we have to speak about discrimination and sexism, and so that's something that "Liberating Hollywood" pays attention to in studying a specific moment in the 1970s. This very specific historical moment, when Hollywood and American social - the landscape of America, in terms of social and political issues intersect. But what's really important is that we look at these filmmakers beyond gender, and we look at them as individual artists who were coming of age in the '70s, and the incredible contributions that they made to, to again, American cinema. And, and so in this series, we're really able to celebrate these folks as the individual artists that they are. So, thank you so much for coming. We have an incredible series that runs throughout February. And please stay for the Q&A with Joan Tewkesbury. And enjoy "Old Boyfriends". It's the one time we really can enjoy an old boyfriend. Tonight. [audience applause] [audience applause] [Smukler:] I know, sorry to make you talk about this immediately afterwards, but [Tewkesbury:] I just - I had forgot. I hadn't seen this movie since it came out. [light audience laughter] And the color is really awful. [audience laughter] [Smukler:] Yeah, we're very sorry about the print. But as we sort of said at the top of this, it's the struggle with, with, you know, these films, these older films. But, actually, there is a chance that there might be new print being made sometime in the future. So. [Tewkesbury:] You know, actually, it's just fine. It's just nice to see the... yeah. [Smukler:] So, do you have an initial reaction? Do you want to just... [Tewkesbury:] Well, I'm shocked because I... there are certain things, that you just go, "Oh my God." You know, but, but it's nice - it's a nice movie. You know, no. And it's just, I know all the lines. I mean it was, it was an interesting experience, to know what they were going to say next. And also the loss of Richard Jordan. I mean, as you know, people do pass away. But it's, it's too bad. He was a wonderful actor. And what I realize, is how much I loved the actors, in this movie. [Smukler:] It's an incredible... I mean, they're so dreamy, all of them. [Tewkesbury:] I know. And we had such a silly time with all of them. We - and with Belushi, of course. I mean he was thoroughly damned for making this movie. Because he had done "Animal House", was the first film. And they thought that this movie was going to be "Animal House". His fans. And it wasn't. And so it, it's, it set him back a little bit. It really did. But all and all, thank you very much for letting me see my movie. [Smukler:] Thank you for making it and coming back to share it with us. [Tewkesbury:] Thank Ed Pressman. [Smukler:] Let's start with that opening scene. What was - how - how did you construct it? I mean to introduce us to that char- to her character. [Tewkesbury:] There was a different beginning, and it was pretty soft. And so this was shot after, after we completed the film. And it immediately puts you - it made you question, "What the hell was going on with this woman?", which is a much better outcome, you know, for the whole of the movie. And it, it fore- it doesn't foretell but it, you know, it foretells just enough. [Smukler:] It puts you on the edge of your seat, because... [Tewkesbury:] Yeah, it's the constructing, the construction of that scene was really important. And it was a decision, Bill Reynolds, the editor. I mean, the help on this film was incredible. And it, it was really, I think, a mutual sort of discussion that we should get harder, you know. [Smukler:] But before we get into how - who worked with you on this film and that idea of the help and support that you had with your crew, tell us how you came to direct this film. I mean, you first, your first job on a feature film is script supervisor on "McCabe and Mrs. Miller"? [Tewkesbury:] Yep. [Smukler:] And then - that's a pretty good first job. [laughs] [Tewkesbury:] I was a terrible, terrible script person. I mean, I came from theater. So I was really convinced that you needed to write all the motivation and the blah, blah, blah. And I - no, I made some big mistakes in that film. And I knew that I would never do that job again. And so I wanted to direct. I had been a choreographer. And Altman said, "You know, you're gonna have to write whatever you do." I did. He tried to produce it. It didn't work out. We couldn't raise 10 cents on Geraldine Chaplin or myself. So the opportunity came because Jeff Berg was both Paul Schrader's and my, and my agent. And, so Paul was backed up with all his good luck on "Blue Collar" and then - ugh, I forget the... there was a series of them. And he and his brother had written this film. So, if, if really to do "Old Boy..." you know, going, going back and seeing old girlfriends. [Smukler:] That's what the script initially was? [Tewkesbury:] That's what the script originally was and it was that time when once again, you know, the, the women. It was the year of the woman and you're going, "Oy vey." And so it, it was shifted. And then there was, you know, minimal re- there was a - I did a rewrite on it, just to pull it into the girls' direction a little bit more. But it was a, it was a process really then of Ed, you know, saying yes, you know. [Smukler:] Ed Pressman, your producer. [Tewkesbury:] Ed Pressman. Going through this process to say, "yes, that he would produce it," which was a miracle, you know. [Smukler:] Why do you describe it as a miracle? [Tewkesbury:] It wasn't too easy to get a job directing a movie or, I mean, others did and did it beautifully. And at the time, I think there were three Joans, a Claudia, and an Amy. And, so the - at least Joan Micklin Silver had, had really sort of pushed through with "Hester Street", and then Joan Darling. And so, it... I don't - it wasn't easy. In fact, it was damned hard, you know. [Smukler:] So you felt even with the support of Robert Altman and a Paul Schrader script, there were still challenges? [Tewkesbury:] Yeah, there were challenges especially with, with Bob, because a lot of people had prejudice against Altman. And so if you came along and you had worked with Bob, everybody went, "Oh, really? Good. Next." You know. And after doing "Nashville", it was not just a sort of character - I mean it was a character piece driven by a lot of people, so nobody was interested in doing one of those. It was hard. No, it was, it was very difficult. Girls were not in the club yet. It's what you said, the younger man sort of pushed through. George Lucas, and this is why in the shot out of Buck Henry's window, I pay homage to "Star Wars", because they had managed to kick down the doors of the old man's club in a way. So, I've been grateful to men ever since, because the people that helped me most in this, in this line of work, were men. There weren't women at the time. As women producers, or it was not firmly in place. And so I would say that through the course of time, some of the most help that I have gotten, have been from men. [Smukler:] Tell us how you worked with your - in, in this vein, how you worked with your editor and your cinematographer? They're both veteran, and... [Tewkesbury:] And they were very generous. And I had - yes, you have ideas of, I had ideas for, for all of this. I just, but I - the person that probably helped the most was Peter Jamison, who is no longer with us. And he was the production designer. And there was another production designer and it wasn't right. And Peter Jamison walked up the stairs. I turned a corner. I took one look at him. He looked at me, I said, "That's it." And it was. I worked with Peter for the next, you know, after this, I did a lot of television film. And so Peter was like your, your other arm. And with a similar mindset, a similar taste about things, and most importantly, a sense of humor. And dark. And so it was - he was the one that came up with the John Belushi hotel suite. As written, it was supposed to be in a very chic hotel. We had looked at the Biltmore in downtown Los Angeles. And Peter came in and said, "I want you to see this." It was the... oh God, Rudolph Valentino suite at a hotel on Spring and - way downtown. And I walked in and I said, "Oh yeah, John will love this." And it was, it, you know, it was perfect. [Smukler:] So much ex- just amazing framing in the film. The hotel scene and then of course when she's sitting in front of that Texaco portrait. [Tewkesbury:] Yes, yes. [Smukler:] You also use a lot of mirrors. How were you thinking about production design and framing in as a way into this character? [Tewkesbury:] So that you never lost her. And when the script was originally written, there, there was a young child. Every time she looked in the mirror, she would see herself as a child. And we shot all of that and then as we got into it, it was, it was, it was dumb. It was not necessary. It was overkill. And, but the, but what became a sort of running theme, was this thing of imaging through, so that you, you always saw her, in other - you never left her in a way. And it was just another way to put two people in the frame, too. You know, it's cheating. It's okay. [Smukler:] There's that one scene after she's, she and Richard Jordan spend the night together, and she drinks the - she puts the liquor in her hand... [Tewkesbury:] That's totally Talia. [laughter] I mean, I just went, "...okay." [Smukler:] It's so precious! It's so... bizarre but seems perfect. How did you come to cast Talia Shire? [Tewkesbury:] Paul had thought about her, and I thought it was great, because she'd just been, you know, Rocky's girlfriend. It was, you know... [Smukler:] She's such a leading lady. [Tewkesbury:] And she is, she is really lovely and mysterious, you know. So that was... his choice. He knew John Belushi. He knew Richard. And we both agreed about Talia, and, and then Buck Henry was a friend. And, Keith, of course, you know. So, I brought a few things. And I love Bethel Leslie. I had always loved her. So it was, it was nice. It was a gorgeous cast. [Smukler:] Shall we take some questions? Anybody have questions? Yeah. Wait, do we have a microphone? Yeah. [Woman in audience:] I wanted to ask. You mentioned the John Belushi fans being disappointed when it came out. What were some other reactions when the film first came out? [Tewkesbury:] A lot of people hated it. And they, they either really loved it, they thought it was just swell. It didn't, it did not make a bazillion dollars on its first weekend. So, as usual, if - money's always an issue in these things. But it really was split. And, but we did get to go to, I got to go to Directors' Fortnight at the Cannes Film Festival. And it had its, it had - I felt solid about it. And about the, you know, what had happened with the actors and all of that. But it, it was a mixed, very mixed review on it. You know, some people liked it. I could - I talked to a friend. Buck is, has had some health difficulty - and but I did write him a note, and tell him that since Vincent Canby had thought he was the only good thing in the movie, that would he like to come this evening and see himself? [Smukler:] Up here, in the way back. Yeah, wait for the microphone please. [Woman #2 in audience:] Hi. Could you talk a little bit about your work with Keith Carradine? And especially in this movie. His physicality and his kind of quirkiness was so wonderful. [Tewkesbury:] Keith. I'd known him obviously through the "McCabe and Mrs. Miller" and, and "Nashville". [Smukler:] And "Thieves Like Us", right? [Tewkesbury:] And "Thieves Like Us" that you'll see. And you'll see - when you see him in that movie, he's - he and Shelley were just gorgeous. You know. He had a very calm quality about him. He listened well to everything. He was curious and you could slip a suggestion, and he would bring you three more things. So usually, my way of working with actors is to watch and to listen, and, you know, maybe miss- whisper two things in their ear. Just to take a shift and then they'll, you know... He's smart. He's a very smart actor. And so it was an easy process in that way. I would say that Belushi was also... [laughs] Belushi had his own quirks. And the night that we did the love scene on... [laughs] The night that we did the love scene on the hill with Belushi, he wasn't quite sure that he would get through that or not. He managed to do just fine. But Keith is, was in, IS a quiet actor. And you don't have to do a lot of prodding. You just sort of send it in a direction and, and the character is written in the script, is the character that he fulfilled certainly. You know, in a very gentle way. And Bethel helped as well. I mean her - the strength of that actress is, is quite extraordinary. So. [Smukler:] How did you? How did you work the voice-over, with Talia Shire's on-screen? [Tewkesbury:] We did, we did three different ages. My daughter is one of them. [laughs] And there was a lot more to it. And, once again, like the image in the mirror, you didn't need a lot. You just needed, you just needed to thread enough in so you had cause. And you could see why she was pissed off about Belushi, you know. And, so it was - but again, we overshot, overdid, had too much. It's like cooking. You know, you just keep pulling it down, pulling it down, pulling it down. But there were three absolutely three different ages. [Smukler:] Was the voice-over in the original version, when it was "Old Girlfriends"? [Tewkesbury:] I don't know. I really, I don't know, because I just, I saw this version of their, of their material. [Smukler:] Other questions? Up here. Way up here in the back. Oh sorry to make you run. [Woman #3 in audience:] Where or how did you get the idea for the script? And/or would you ever recommend doing such a thing? [laughs] [Tewkesbury:] Pardon me, doing what? [Woman #3:] Tracking down old boyfriends. [Tewkesbury:] Uh no. I don't think so. I mean... Well, some time ago - well, we won't go into that. [Smukler:] Well, it's sort of a happy ending though. [Tewkesbury:] It has a nice ending. Yes. The idea came - it was def- it was a script from Paul and Leonard. And it was their tracking down old girlfriends, you know, which that was their idea. So, yes. [Smukler:] There was somebody down here. I'm sorry. [Man in audience:] Hello, Joan. [Tewkesbury:] Hi. [Man:] Chris McIntire, from "The Acorn People". [Tewkesbury:] Yes. Oh my gosh. [McIntire:] So we worked together three years after this. [Tewkesbury:] Yes. [McIntire:] And my question for you was, how difficult did you find it to transition from theatrical films into television? Which, you know, where most of your career laid after this. [Tewkesbury:] Right. I didn't. Because I treated every television film like a feature. And figuring that it was my way to make a feature film. And at that particular time, films for, for television were solid. I mean there were, they were a solid story and, so I treated it no differently at all. Just, you know, less days. So. No, there's to me, there's no difference. A movie is a movie is a movie, you know. So. Yes, there's... [Smukler:] In the back, back? [Man #2 in audience:] Hi Joan. I have to ask, what is the history of this film's availability after its initial theatrical release? You know, I was shocked to have, before this wonderful series was programmed and advertised to have not heard of this film even though I'm, you know, a big fan of your work. And so, I'm just wondering, you know, why do you think this film perhaps fell out of the public consciousness in a way that other films, even films that were not successful theatrically at the time didn't? And then secondly, what influence among the people who have seen it, have you heard about or or felt in feedback over the years? I couldn't help but think of the, the wonderful film "Broken Flowers" by Jim Jarmusch, which is, is sort of like "Old Girlfriends" in a way, you know. [Tewkesbury:] Right. [Man #2:] But, just curious. [Tewkesbury:] I don't know. It... in terms of happened to it, I think, again, people were confused by Belushi in a way. They expected it to be a different kind of movie. It did, you know, it did well enough, I think. But at the time, it - I, I really am not sure. And what's happening to the film now, is that, it's being addressed in a lot of these films. It's being addressed to be able to show them, you know, in, in special venues. And, with the great help of someone who's very interested in promoting this kind of thing, Rialto Films. And, but also just to try to get a reprint of this, so that you can actually see what it looked like. But it's hard to say. It really is hard to say because you're not, I, I am not responsible for the distribution or what happens to it afterwards. And it really has to do with the kind of popularity. Who, who - what movie star, you know, do people want to see. So, I'm sorry not being able to answer you more clearly. [Smukler:] I wonder if, Ed Pressman, do you, are you here? Is he here - yeah! Do you - would you like to comment on that question about the distribution of the film? Or how you... marketed it? Or sort of what your experience was with its release. [Pressman:] Well, as from Joan's point-of-view, it was an ordeal getting the film made. From my point-of-view, it was an ordeal getting the film made and distributed. Very - we were delivering payroll in $20 bills. [audience laughter] They were, all kinds of people that we had to draw out of the woodwork to get the film made, even with Belushi, and Joan, and Schrader, and all that […] As Joan said it was... [Tewkesbury:] It was not an easy make. No. [Pressman:] Seeing it, seeing it tonight, I gotta say, I saw it, for the first time, as a - for what it is. When […] I was too close to it. [Tewkesbury:] Yes, we all were. [laughs] [Pressman:] But I really, really think it's... [Tewkesbury:] I really liked it! [Pressman:] Yeah, me too! [Tewkesbury:] You know, good! [Smukler:] Chris, in the back. Yeah. [Chris Horak:] What I find the most amazing aspect of this film, is the way you, with reckless abandon, switch genres from one boyfriend to the next. And thereby probably confounded far too many expectations for the film to be successful in its time. But now, when, you know, looking at it, from more of a post-modern viewpoint, I think it's just, it's really an amazing work. [Tewkesbury:] Thank you. [audience applause] [Smukler:] Were you, were you conscious of that, when you were constructing the film? [Tewkesbury:] Yeah, we were conscious of it, yeah. And this is, this is why I point out Peter Jamison's work. Because it was - at that, at that time, I worked from still photographs a lot. And I would bring in books and so Peter and I went through all the looks for each of these things. And he sprung the, the great red hotel. And then Fraker, we would go through the color and, you know, what, what emphasis to place with each, each of these men. And it, it, yes. It was, it was a very careful study and it's almost like different sets of paintings for each, of, you know, these boys. And the, the scenes in the, in the Keith Carradine section. Some of it was shot in Seattle. Some of it was shot in South Pasadena. John Houseman's office was at Immaculate Heart College, which is now AFI. So we had the opportunity to, to have that one location trip to get exteriors. And then, Talia, at the time was married to David Shire, who wrote the score. Some of it is a tad over the top, and you're sort of going, "Oh my God." But for the most part, the, the gentle theme is, is really lovely. So. [Smukler:] We have to go to our next film. Do you want to say anything briefly? Set us up for "Thieves Like Us", because it's a big shift. [Tewkesbury:] Yes, I will. It's, it was a film, again, that was made with $20 bills, practically. The... Bob... Altman and Jerry Bick, and George Litto, at the time was Altman's agent. Bick had the rights to the, to the book. It was a straight, I - really, it was a straight adaptation from "Thieves Like Us". And we were to shoot the film in Mississippi. And two times we went down to start pre-production. And two times, we had lost the money for the film, from Los Angeles to Mississippi on the airplane ride. Finally those three stood, and near the Xerox machine in the production office, and they all said, "Okay, I'll mortgage this much of my house." I mean, that's how the film got made. It is, it is a really, it's beautiful. And finally you'll get to see nice color, next. It was shot in the Spring in Mississippi. Bob hired Jean Boffety, a French cinematographer, who would not be prejudiced, or know anything about what was going on in the South at that time. At that time, it was, it was pretty intense. And I was often in charge of going out and finding locations. I had very long hair. And I was told as I was - I went up one, walked up one side of the street, across the street, came back, and I finally found the beauty shop and, that we were looking for. And the woman inside the beauty shop said, "Girl, if you don't tie up your hair, somebody's going to come and cut it off." That was the climate that we were shooting in. It was a six-week schedule. It was classic in one sense, that Bob pulled all of those actors out of "McCabe and Mrs. Miller", so we all had known each other for a very long time. And it's a sweet film and it's heartbreaking in a lot of ways. And... it's when you see Shelley and Keith, they're just, they're absolutely beautiful. And it was released the same weekend as "The Great Gatsby" with Robert Redford, and so you can see where "Thieves Like Us" fell in the mix. Pauline Kael liked it though. So. [Smukler:] Thank you, Joan Tewkesbury. [audience applause]