Interview with Marsha P. Johnson (1988)

okay so where did you want to start at are we started okay this is Jim Kepner at the gay archives in uh Los Angeles on Saturday January 9th 1988 and we are interviewing Marsha a veteran of Stonewall Marsha Johnson Mara Johnson okay and maybe there's a whole new generation of gays now who don't even know what Stonewall was what was huh what was Stonewall uh Stonewall was a gay bar for gay men with gay Bo go go boys and it was a goo boys I didn't have heard that yes they had go go boys was the first gay bar in New York to have go go there too uh they had a few lesbians that entered every now and then but it and they played all these records on the Drew Fox and in 1969 it was the last gay bar to be raided by mayor beam in the village I mean they threatened to clo they had another gay bar called uh I think it was uh number one and it was right on shidan Square where they have a uh uh the Charles Lam Playhouse now and in 1969 this mayor threatened to close every gay bar in New York and at the stone wall I was just one of the patrons that used to visit the place and uh after a while they had this great big raid like once and they had everybody line up against the wall and show all of our identification then the second time they came in and had us line up against the wall and then like it was all in the summer of 1969 and then uh the next thing I knew the place was closed down but everybody says it was in uh June they had to Stone Wall rise as I remember was August because I think I was given a birthday party then and I came down town and they were riding but it was like August 28th or something cuz everybody has a hard time remembering what dat to Stone Wall riots was all you have to do is go to the Daily News and get the newspaper it's all there now were you there at the time of the riot yes what happened well people to start throwing over cars and they were throwing bottles and they were throwing bricks and they were throwing all kinds of things and the C was uh how did that start uh well it all started with a demonstration a lot of people start demonstrating outside of the bar and everything and then the cop just tried to chase them off the street and away from the bar and they refused to move and so the cops started hitting them with sticks and they just started hauling bottles and everything do you remember anybody else who was involved at the time at the stone wall RI oh there was so many people uh like uh Jim fat was there I mean like there was there was really an awful lot of people I really couldn't I really couldn't uh remember too much how about how many people were there you know as far as their names go and everything because it's so far back how did you feel at the time oh I felt real good about him riding because uh when I first came to New York it was in 1963 when I finished Thomas Edison High School in Elizabeth and uh they only had one gay bar called the Blue Bunny up town on 45th Street and like you had to you know come there after dark and you couldn't do any drag or anything you had to look very straight to get in I mean uh and didn't they start opening a lot of other gay bars like the uh stone wall and stuff downtown I mean 1969 there wasn't there wasn't many too many too many places we was a stall a beer bar or a Liquor Bar it was a Liquor Bar oh it was I thought it was just a beer bar no it was a Liquor Bar mhm and it was the first place to had go- go dances in New York as far as VAR goes how big was it it was two rooms they had a front bar and a back bar and in the back bar you could dance and on the front bar they had go- go boys it was real nice what sort of crowd did it get how would you describe the uh it got a whole uh great big crowd of of of middle class people coming there uh many underage no nobody was underage is the Stonewall everybody ID was checked did they check ID carefully yes very carefully I had heard that they didn't they had two very wonderful gentlemen that worked at the stone wall that always checked out everything did you hear talk that it was a mafia bar oh hear talk MH oh yes I heard talk but I don't know I think that was mostly talk but I don't know either uh how long it had been an operation do you know the stone wall mhm but while I came downtown in 19 uh I think it was 19668 or 1967 cuz I used to hang out up town it was open already and I started just hanging out there I hung out there for about a year a year and a half I mean was the only place that you can go and feel free to dance you know and nobody would bother you at that time except for the Blue Bunny were you going and drag any or yes I had just started drags then I wasn't doing drags until the late 60s on the street or in the just in the bars I mean on a regular basis you know I used to go in and out of drags on the streets but I I I I used to work waiting on tables and everything so I didn't do that much drag when I came to Stone Wall I started doing a lot of drag like when I went to first went to the stone wall I was in drag as you can see I'm not doing much drag anymore I've seen you in drag I'm not doing much drag anymore but I'm thinking about going back in because I'm just got on cover Earth Wind and Fire and I'm thinking about you know doing some more drag cuz I'm going to beauty school now around the corner here yeah I'm going to Newberry starting February 1st but as far as the stone wall goes uh like at alternate you I used to help bring food to the people at alter you and I became the uh uh vice president of three transvest D action revolutionaries and I was in out of the closet the Gay Liberation you know the book what Was Sylvia like oh my dear syvia Sylvia was was a a real revolutionary person as far as you know fighting for uh right support and stre people and stuff like that but she uh she had a lot of problems of her own in between I mean that's why I was the one that advised her she should give up Street transvest like action revolutionaries banner and uh take a rest for a while and decide whether she wanted to pick it up again because it was very very hard for her I mean like everybody was against the trans vestes just about the movie movement M they they just couldn't get along with a male that looked like a woman and syvia was that type of person she would always come out and dresses and stuff the meetings and everything and they would always think she was disruptive and everything but the men and the women could do all the Talking they wanted to do did you meet Angela Douglas key or Angela key or Angela Douglas no she was out here and then later in Miami but she was in New York for a while during that time but I H but she was a very wild militant too were you involved in any of the militant actions say the March past the women's jail or uh the oh yes I was in that the one where I was in the march on biew hospital they got a picture of me in front of Belle I mean it had about five breakdowns in my lifetime I had one at Randy's you know Randy used to be a rider yeah when did you first meet Randy uh when I had my first breakdown in 19771 and I was in uh Manhattan state hospital he came over and tried to get me out with Jim Miles and Marty Mansford and all those people and they all it was the funniest way they did it they all came in and they all said they came to visit me and then they tell me to run and I ran across the lawn and everything and I got out of hospital and I H defense cuz they said they weren't going to release me I mean I have all these breakdowns from overwork and stuff and I was working very hard in the movement 1969 I used to work at the gay Center and I used to work with the poor people that didn't have a home where was the gay Center then the gay Center was on Third Street in 6th Avenue and what called the glf community center up over folks City how long did glf last about three years I thought it had died very it's it continued after GAA started well no glf lasted three years and uh GAA kept on going GA went into the middle 70s yeah uh they still got a lot of people around from both movements uh when uh Diego uh the guy who jumped out the window and impaled himself jumped out the window of the police station after a bar raid and impaled himself uh there was a big demonstration then that was just a short time after Stonewall ah you don't recall that no I didn't go to that Dem I can't remember his name now uh how about any of the stins um we had a great big c in once at uh it was like a building up on the west side but I forgot what it was like I'm around 57th Street we had a great big city in alter at you and and and no Student Center for a long time but we sat there for about a week I mean uh there was a lot of sittings you know in those days and what did you do in those huh did you join the cens I used to like bring food and I used to sit in for a while I mean I couldn't sit there all day long and everything like that and see people starving and everything waiting for food I mean I and then plus I was in all this like I was in the Angela Davis demonstrations I mean I get I get and what was I didn't hadn't heard of that one but when Angela Davis was arrested on six on on uh and arrested by the federal govern govern in New York oh yeah uh all the gay people went down and demonstrated in front of the women's House of detention to get Angela out of out of Angela Davis out of jail and we were all on that demonstration for a few days I mean in the gay movement they think we only get into uh certain gay gay demonstrations but it's not true we getting all kinds of political demonstrations did you ever go to any of the ones in Washington I was just S one in Washington in fact I was the one that arranged for free tickets free tickets for all poor people that couldn't go to the demonstration cuz they had no money cuz I walked into the to the gay Center on 13th Street and 7th Avenue a lot of gay people remember me yeah I helped on the committee here to uh see who could go that couldn't afford the uh Transportation well see they remember me because I've I've been in New York for 20 for 23 years but I I've been in the movement for like ever since 1969 I'm in every gay Marsh and I only skipped two and I went back because Ed Murphy who was the Grand Marshal for the Stone World ride contingent he wanted me to walk in the car ride in the car 19 uh just in [Music] 1970 I think it was 1976 mhm it was just two years ago and I was here in California uh walking you know alongside the parade and he said I got to get back there and be in the front of the parade so I I got on a plane in May and I got back there and I was in and I was in that car but it was it was an honor in some ways you know but then it's not an honor in some ways because there's still so many people walking in a par I feel better walking I've been in a car a couple times and I feel about it love it's just bold in my back it's kind of hard but I think I feel better walking too I mean cuz I've walked so long you know that's I come I didn't ask to be in the car couple more years I said let everybody else be in the car and I walked in the parade this year and I walked in Washington what' you think about Washington this time it was a vision wasn't it I thought it was a vision of things to come because you know if they don't help those people with AIDS there is going to be another demonstration like that in Washington I mean they got billions of dollars to throw out on rocket ships billions of dollars to throw out on Wars I mean why can't they spend billions of dollars to help people with a I mean they didn't give the people with Aid any money at all yeah even the money that's been voted hasn't been spent by the federal government no they haven't spent dime I mean like me as an individual when I can I throw a penny a dime a qu order anything I can in the AIDS can how do you feel about uh the AIDS thing do you feel that's changed well I know a lot of people have died from AIDS I've had a friend 24 years old I said four months in California with in a hospital that had AIDS and finally died and he was on an oxygen tank and he couldn't even breathe and I had a I came back to New York and I had a went to see a friend that had AIDS in the hospital for about week and then I winded up having a breakdown and he comes to see me in the hospital and about a week later after he's if he comes to see me he goes back to the hospital he died that was John Dewey I mean I know I know I have a friend you know I have a lot of friends that have died of AIDS a couple of the guys who work with Randy are down with AIDS aren't they no they don't have AIDS they have like Ark um it's a difference yeah and people see they don't understand about AIDS when I was in a hospital I working with this AIDS patient I like to go to work more AIDS patients really cuz I'm really not afraid of the AIDS it's a virus when you can't fight disease I mean if I could do more for these people I would like at Christmas time I took puzzles and stuff over to the center and they had already send everything out to the people with AIDS and stuff you know for Christmas so I just left him there and I think some poor people didn't have nothing and picked them up but if I had more money I like to you know help more with donations or anything just to find a cure for AIDS because it's really terrible the way people some people is try to treat people with a sickness that sometimes just can't be help because sometimes the people with AIDS aren't consider it and they go out with other people after they find out they have the virus MH and it somewhat works on the brain yeah yeah sometimes the brain shrivels how long were you in Washington this time just for the March or I just went there for the March and I was there for one day did you see the quilt yes I seen a quilt soon as we got off the bus in Washington we had limited time M we were supposed to be out of Washington at 6:00 in the evening how do you feel about the quilt uh I thought the quilt was a good idea idea and I thought it was a beautiful quilt and I thought the thought the people that worked on that quilt did a fabulous job it's going to be here in a couple months now and it's an idea you know that shows that we remember those people that have died of AIDS and that we will never forget you know what happened them to them and hope it doesn't happen to us because those people that died of AIDS didn't a lot of them didn't know what they were you know doing a lot of innocent people died of AG I hope to I hate to say this sort of thing but I hope we can make a panel for Ronald Reagan senior a panel oh disgust president to disgust I would love I would love to see the president's name on that quilt oh well I don't think that ever happened with all the M that's not a good thing to say but that's with all the money he's got I don't think he'll ever wind up on that quilt the uh I mean on the tape of Washington they showed where people had went to the Allington Cemetery to see the Unknown Soldier I mean there's a lot of unknown gays that have marched in the war just like they said and I mean I think those people it's wonderful they remember those people that's how come every year no matter where I am I try and get back to New York York to go to the candalite visual for AE patients in New York and I like we had about uh 500 people walking in that visual this year I haven't been to one of those yet well it's just an idea you know all these ideas to remember all those people that that didn't die of natural causes they died of of a of a disease that we just have no care for and there's just no way we can really help them in any kind of way except go visit them in hospitals and give donations to try and find a cure and you know give them whatever kind of comfort we could give him instead of just turning our backs and saying he's sick well goodbye to him you know just uh hi I've been here for everything okay oh yeah start uh I've been trying to find a parking spot for 15 minutes Ben and Chuck uh yeah hi I didn't mean to interrupt your session that's okay he wanted me to come and set this thing up for him he didn't know how so evidently you've got everything working and I'll get out of your did you bring any tapes I'm I'm illegally parked anyway uh you were going to bring me some tapes a long time ago and a couple people have been calling about some of those I'll bring some to you in the next week okay don't want interrupt yeah that's why I'm here okay Chuck thanks I didn't forget about you uh you know I was born in Elizabeth New Jersey mhm and my real name is Mal Michaels I put it in out a closet the Gay Liberation the book but it ain't too many people that read that book anymore cuz it's out of print uhuh did I Randy had the cop but he had a hard time getting the cop is that the Carla J Allen young one yes yes they came to my house on Second Street when I was living with the street people and I was gagging I was sleeping he woke me up and he said would you like to be in a book and I thought they were joking uhuh cuz I've been a lot of things recently I did an interview with her I just wrote a letter to off to him he's sending us some stuff oh you should tell him I said hello I haven't seen him in years he's living in backwood Massachusetts oh I know he's somewhere in the woods he told me he was leaving for the woods well he got unhappy after he did the book on gays in Cuba and a lot of his politically correct friends uh thought he was attacking Cuba ah and Cuba is a good communist country and should not be attacked ah even if they're imprisoning gays uhhuh did you know any of gay Cubans by the way no uh what do you feel about some of the changes in the gay commun well you I love the new change they got did you hear about the new change they have in the gay movement in New York up they C this new group called um act up act up and they're really fabulous I went to L active one of the latest uh there's an Act Up group here it's a bit different but they've started one here too well I went to ACTA from the gay Center and we went over to the UN building and we sat and demonstrated for 5 hours for fundraising for AIDS patients and it was really nice cuz we all got together and we just walked and carried our banners and chanted and after about 5 hours we just broke up with a peaceful demonstration but my dear without demonstrating and stuff like that people don't know that we care about these people and I mean I I could I really got great concern for these people you know when I watched the way they treated my friend in the hospital but I was going to see AIDS patients before that because I went to see them in New York well my friend just got the AIDS treatment he was in the hospital for a heart attack and because his doctor handled a lot of AIDS patients they put the red sign on his door and everybody who came in and out had GL put on gloves apron and uh masks and then threw them away as they went out and his waist basket was piling up fast as hell uh and well the the mask and stuff when I was in California I had to wear a mask Mark uh shoes everything you know an apron I had a r dress to go into that room because the the Mas and stuff is supposed to be for their protection just in case you know breathing germs and stuff just in case you're carrying germs on your hands or anything cuz these people are very delicate you know I mean you know I had to clean up the whole house just in case my friend came home yeah it had to be spotless we had to get rid of dogs everything and know a couple of died of cat fever it's not serious ordinarily but if you've got AIDS any little thing can be ser ious yes uh when did you come out how early or were you in 1963 uhuh I came out right after I finished high school but I thought see I was young kid raised in church and my mother didn't tell me anything about gay life ever she used to say the dark bers you know and she used to tell me all kinds of little fairy tales she and then she started telling me there were gay people out there you know but she didn't tell me they had sex or anything so when I was uh 17 years old I was still very naive and I was United States Navy and I got honorable discharge under honorable conditions registered in Washington but I only made like 6 months in reserves before I was kicked out cuz some boy touched my ass and I just punched him in the drawer I know I I I I was very very very late coming out in the homosexual life because I wanted Education First MH so after I finished Thomas ederson High School I started to go out searching to see if there was really anything out there did you have different feelings early on early on I didn't think about sex I never had sex with person until after I was 18 about I was almost did you ever get teased as a or anything like that yes but I didn't pay any attention I was almost raped when I was uh 16 years old by the boy next door but see I was never a very sexual person as a child like a lot of other people I couldn't be bothered I tell myself I I used to watch what were you interested in in school huh what were you interested in in school I was interested in cooking and house cleaning and pretty much what I do nowadays cooking and house cleaning and managing of a restaurant and uh learning how to you know do different things for survival just in case of emergency did you have any romances in school oh no I wouldn't go out with anyone anyone that was interested in me I always used to chase them away I couldn't be bothered I said this person doesn't really love me they're just playing a game here did your mother or your relatives ask you well when are you going to get married uh why aren't you going out with girls they used to always asked that how' you handle it well when I the way I used to handle it is just say I didn't have any time I was too busy shining shoes or going to school or you know or going to church on Sunday my sister said you're just a hypocrite going to church every but I used to meet interesting people I used to meet all these different people that used to take me to camps and everything I mean they used to take me on all kinds of trips cuz see I used to go to Protestant church and Protestant Baptist used to hang out together on Sundays sometimes and they used to take me all kinds of different places but nothing was no sex with discussed there or anything it was just like the Lord all the way you know how far is Elizabeth from New York uh about seven miles five miles did you get over to New York much when you were a kid no I didn't go when I was a kid I went when I was like 17 years old MH that's what made me know New York was much different from New Jersey cuz Elizabeth I hung around with all these straight kids on Broad Street when I was 16 and 15 how far is Elizabeth from Hoboken is it in that same part of New Jersey or six miles uh it's not far to Elizabeth from about 10 miles maybe cuz in Jersey see going to New York Elizabeth is right on the coastline oh H's way over the other side Elizabeth is right next to New York you just go right through nework and right up the Turn Pipe and you're in New York City mhm it took me an hour my Buss each time I came over there did you stay continue living in Elizabeth for a while when you were first going over to New York yes yes I did with your family yes because I have just I was was there any friction with them about what you were doing or where you were going or tell oh yeah my mother used to get very upset when I used to say I'm going to New York but then I said I'm I'm paying my own bills nowadays and I'm old enough to take care of myself and I'm going going anyway after a while she got used to it did she ever find out you were gay I told her I was gay soon as I soon as I turned gay I just ran home and told her how'd she respond she said it's the phase you'll get over it m because see she she knew a lot of gay people when she was when she used to go to these bars she used to see all these drag queens and everything and I tell her God gave you one of your gr now I was never sh my homosexuality once you know once I became gay in 1963 I used to always brag about it till my whole family did you know anything about the matachine society before Stonewall no as they were pretty much the only gay organization in New York for a long time or a little later about 66 or 67 uh the homophile homosexual youth homophile youth movement in the neighborhoods him that I know about that that was run by the guy and Randy was involved some with that yes it was run by the guy who started the Oscar wild bookstore ah oh I know who that was um I always I know his name by heart but I can't think I always talked to him all the time him and Randy is still real good friends his name is what oh I got it on the tip of my tongue I always Craig Rockwell yeah how early did you know him Craig Rockwell I know him from the movement oh he used to hate me he's a very he used to be a very hard worker in G as far as I I think he was in GA when he was working and he is very hard worker and I used to always come and disrupt meetings out but he he he just sit there and listen but he he's been very nice to me lately he's the manager of the bookstore now him and Randy got way back together they're just about the same age Ry a lot those two were the first gay radicals in New York uhhuh not radical in the same way that the term is used now but but I haven't been too radical I have a gay love banner and someday I like to have the gay love Banner announced in the parade you know if I live long enough and have it you know put on the list for uh marches for the parade but I've never listed to gay love Banner in any parade in New York I just marched in there a couple of times but I like someday to have a charter and everything because you know what gay love means don't you it's a button it means happy sharing and I think if there was more happy sharing in the gay movement inad instead of selfishness my dear we' be a lot further than we are today I mean when people start sharing from the heart and giving from the heart it would make it a better mve than any straight movement and a stronger movement than any straight movement could ever be like it would be nice if if if you come to some place like Washington and some demonstration if they just can get some free cookies and coffee or something just so that people don't have to pay for everything along oh some people arranged to do that in San Francisco the first time their parade got real big and uh they had a food committee that was going to have all free food they bought enough for 200 people and that was the T first time that about a 100,000 showed up ah and it was just ridiculous they had done a big advertising they had all this free food out in the park ah uh 20 or 30 jars of apple juice and had UH 60 or 70 packages of cookies ah well at least they tried to feed some of the people they couldn't do like Jesus did and stretch it out make it enough well everybody brings something to stretch it out like I tried to be very nice to people from other states when I came to Washington because I was very Fierce I had all these feathers in my hair that I me I had an uh on the cover for I was went and fire and I met these people from Tennessee that wanted to take photos and some from Texas and so I took photos with these people even though I wasn't with anybody particularly in the March Washington now one of the guys who used to be on our board interviewed a whole bunch of the people from Tennessee you might be in his videotape because I think I remember seeing that well that was before the walk started yeah yeah he was interviewing the people from ten see before the March started uhhuh and I think I remember seeing someone prancing around with a lot of feathers I figured I'd be different in Washington this year I just I just had to go it was like six o'clock in the morning when we had to get down there but my dear my friend that uh passed away of AIDS I promised him that if anything happened to him I would be in Washington on 11th in his place so I did get there I just threw on these little wine shorts and everything and his pants right through but being a small town person from Elizabeth New Jersey I've come you know I've learned a lot in the game movement like they gave a lot A Great Big Christmas party at the gay Center and they've been giving me clothes to wear and everything here and they've been telling me places where I can go get food they've really been helping me out I'm like a New York to Center sometime they give me information and stuff but you know it's very hard to work for free in the gay community and I applied for two jobs here in California Center and I never even got called [Music] in I mean you know and I've been uh going to the center every day every week for employment house cleaning here and I haven't gotten one job yet so it's very hard you know especially living on Social Security with a bullet in your back and you don't even you don't even get your Social Security check on time mhm oh mine always come under I have to appy for I had to apply for a second social security check since I've been here well that's because I had the wrong ZIP code on my first check I mean but you know in a place like California and any place where you live and you don't have the right ZIP code or anything on your mail it just takes much longer to get there and you just have to try and struggle and do best you can until it does and I think that I think that uh Ed Murphy and those people that work with Ed Murphy are and even though they try to call them Mafia I think the mafia has done more for the gay movement than anybody I can think of you know I think the mafia is the one that made the gay movement and I think the mafia is the one that keeps the gay movement Mo motivated as far as finances go and everything and I can't see how anybody ever puts the mafia down as far as the get movement goes CU they're the ones that put out tons of dollars to open gay bars and stuff like that and put their lives on the line when people try and cause trouble at G bars I mean what are people saying when they say Mafia my dear a lot of people say Mafia because they don't like these people to stand up at the front door and Screen you for ID and everything like that but if they didn't a undercover cop can come in here anytime they want and just close the place down what's Ed Murphy like he was the bartender or the manager of the Stonewall at the time of the riot he was like a manager but I wasn't near when Murphy was there there were other people there when Murphy was there I was there when Murphy was manager 10th of always and he was very very nice person and he's very very nice person now I mean he was so good to transvest it was to be believed I mean he's always been one time I went to twice three times I went to Ed Murphy for help in the gave movement and each time I got it I went there for $100 once because I needed it to uh to help send a friend back to uh to bring a friend in from Baltimore because his friend was sick he was like a he had like a stomach infection had to have his appendix taken out and then there was a person named Bambi who was a transvest back from the 82 club that died in New York we had to have her cremated I went to Ed Murphy and his committee and I asked for $250 and I didn't even have to pay it back and we had them cremated in the ashes thrown on Christopher Street we all went there and threw the ashes they still there all the way Christopher Street all the way to the water and they like film that you know I mean and he always helps out at Christmas time with the children everything and ever since he's decided to join the parade he's there every year for the parade and he's not a very well person he's always going in and out of Hospital like last year he gave me $20 which I hope to pay back sometime cuz I needed it for the parade cuz I didn't have any money on par day I mean he helps out tons of mentally children all year long and people say a lot of things bad about Ed Murphy but I personally know the good thing things that he does to help hundreds and hundreds of people all the time he runs around he talks to people he listens to their problems and he tries to help them the best he can you know and I mean for one individual he's got a lot of awards to prove for the credits that he's done a lot of work for people and you and you never hear anybody at a Mally centers say any bad anything bad about him they always say all the good things and give him all the credit for what he's done to help so many wonderful children to live a longer life than they were living you know before Murphy came along you know and that's the onetoone program and the people that work with him I mean a lot of times in gay movement they don't give you any good credits while you're here I I hardly don't never get any good credits I mean about the only G good credits I got in the gay movement was the ones when I when uh Allan young wrote that book I mean a lot of people used to say a lot of bad things about me like what like I was a hooker and I worked on the streets they used to say oh she's just a hooker and she works on they don't know I would never just a hooker working on the streets I was a hooker working in the gay movement I mean I I've been at all Dem demonstrations whenever I'm in jail as a hooker I've been bailed out of jail by the gay movement on gay pride day cuz my dear I I only I i' I've I've only been a hooker because that was the only thing I could think to do at a time you know when I was on hormones and stuff like that but I've been a go- go dancer how long will the schooling take now oh well 42 years old I'm telling you this is going to take me a year to go to school but I'll be able to help poor people with their hair if I find somebody that can you help me with my hair yes nothing can be done with that oh yes they know how to oh let me tell you I bet you they do they know how to weave a wig on that it looks like your own here and every sure it does I got a grant for $5,000 to do this just by going into ask I mean I went there cuz I'm plan to wear a lot of makeup when I go to school so I just start wearing now I mean I hope to dye my hair next blonde next week or something I mean I want to new Intrigue for Hollywood I've been 86 from two gay bars already since I've been here to Gold coasting another one oh how come I don't know they like in New York I'm 86 from All These Bars and I don't even know why they just say you can't come in but this always happens to me Jim MH all all the time I'm so used to it is to be believed I could go into a stet bar I can get a drink anytime I want the think it's because you're not butch enough or uh racial I don't really know I don't really care about it you know I mean when I first came to Hollywood I went to the Hollywood SP and they said you have no no identification you can't get in here and then I have identification and you know they just say I can't get in I just pay no attention gay places are not very important for me to go to especially bars but I just like to go in and peek around and have a beer or something if you're very nice to me I go back and spend money but if they're not I just don't even waste my time cuz I'm really not a bar person and I've i' I've come a long way as far as growing up like if people say I'm a drugie I don't even care if I feel like diing dabbing into drugs I just go on and do it you only got One Life to Live Jim you don't live it to please other people you got to live your life to please you no matter what it is if you're here for a day cuz tomorrow is not promised to anybody and I just lived my life from day to day since B got my back how'd that happen I was out with a taxi cab driver and I got paid $20 to get I finished the job I walk down the street and he calls me back I see the gun I run and he fires and I didn't do anything to him he just left me out in the middle of the street I mean but you know you just never know when you're going Andre and I mean I I plan to continue to work with those people in act up when I have a chance but I'm just in California for a while trying to get myself more together as far as finances and stuff go because I only get $372 in New York and I don't know how I'd ever make it in New York without Randy wicker I mean Randy's been help for me for so many years in New York like three or four years has been helping me budget money and everything otherwise I wouldn't even survive I mean but I got to go back to New York even if I'm going to school for gay day for the parade this year so I probably I'm I'm in I'm I'm going to be in school we have our parade here the same day as a new yor so what I'll do I'll just take a week out of school and I'll just go you could go to the one here no it's not like it's different it's very different I'm not sure you'd like it as much oh I like it but you know a lot of people be wondering are going to be wondering where I am all winter mhm so I I'll just take out from school and I go to the parade goinging home for the holidays yes I wanted to take out of school and go home for Randy's birthday but I'm just going to be starting when is his birthday February the 3rd I'm just going to send you how old he is now ry's going to be 50 and I know he's going to be quite that's how come I called him born 1936 or yes about 1930 six is Right 38 iess no 38 if he' be will he be 50 this time yeah okay it' be 38 yeah okay anything else you can think of uh I like to do more work for transvest stes MH I like to help more transvest sex than I've been helping well now that so many of us have gotten respectable we're kind of forgetting about I like to help those homeless people I like to open up a house where people they're only homeless because they want to be aren't they no a lot of homeless people aren't homeless because they want to be a lot of Home people don't understand homeless people homeless people are usually people that are uneducated they never finished high school that are runaways that are are molested as children victims is child abuse I mean and these people these people grow up and they don't know they don't know what to do with their lives and they wind up on drugs and they wind up on Santa Monica Boulevard or any other Boulevard the Westside highway I mean they wind up uh uh uh dead or something from depression these are like young people that if you can grasp them and give them food and the place to stay and finance to you know send them to a school where they can get learn how to read and write something some of them can make something out of themselves but hardly anybody ever does that I mean you can't like this person I know the D I grabbed him at 14 years old and I like held on to him and I tried to help him any way I can like buying him food and get him a place to stay and stuff and he managed to make it to at least 24 years old but if I would like left him out there heaven knows he might have died early than that I mean I mean I when I have apartment I just open it up to all these people and I don't care if I'm ripped off for a stereo or something like that these are worldly things I came here with nothing and I'm leaving with nothing I just let them take it I mean if that's going to help me have a couple extra dollars and I'm going to take all this stuff with me when I go huh I ain't taking anything I and i' i' I'm not just I've not just only helped these people in the past I plan to help them in the future mhm but I take reses and this is my rest in California where I'm going to school you plan to go back to New York then I plan to go back to New York yes New York is is made for 22 years I know so many people there can you get the other one over there just pick it up yeah go ahead and I don't know how I could ever thank those hundreds of people that helped me in New York they the ones that help me to buy 4 pass it on to someone else I mean so many people in the stores on Christopher and Street and stuff been giving me clothes and they give me change every day MH I mean I have this friend named Rob that works at Rob's restaurant and Randy that getes me money all the time cuz you know I haven't been hustling in a while I just decided my dear I've given these men enough I'm going on vacation I mean AIDS is out there honey I don't want the AIDS I don't want to have sex for Holly anybody and isn't because I have paranoia fever that's because I say if I got to go I might as well get somebody gorgeous okay let's uh call it with that unless there's some something else you want to add uh well I think something that I would like to add is like we've come a long way in gay movement but we got a long way to go and I think that all of us gay brothers and sisters to just try to keep on doing our best to hold each other's hand and keep on going right through the A barus and everything to the other side of the rainbow I think that's about it okay and thanks very much oh you're welcome oh