Intersections: Race, Gender, Sexuality and the LGBTQ+ Family

[K. J. Relth] Good evening, everyone. And welcome to UCLA Film and Television Archives first-ever live, virtual screening. My name is K. J. Relth and I'm a film programmer with the Archive and it is my pleasure to introduce our program this evening. "Intersections: Race, Gender, Sexuality and the LGBTQ Plus Family." Ah, just a couple of notes up top. So, in the event of a technical difficulty tonight, please be sure to check the email address you used, to register for this screening, um, when you signed up on Eventbrite. Or you can watch our social media channel for updates on how to continue to do the program. You can find us on twitter at UCLAFTVArchive. And, um, for the future, this and all future, ah, original programs will be archived here on Vimeo, for repeat viewings and for sharing. So, ah, that will happen soon after the end of this program, at the same link you clicked on to access the stream this evening. So, this Vimeo channel is part of the Archives brand new virtual streaming screening room initiative. The virtual screening room is the Archives newest online portal for viewing free and open access programs. Um, which are curated largely from moving image material from the Archives collections. Tonight's program is a curated selection of short form works from the Outfest UCLA Legacy Project, the largest publicly accessible collection of LGBTQ films in the world. The forty one thousand item collection consists of narrative and documentary film and video, both short and long form. Television programs, public service announcements, um, music videos, and home movies and experimental films. Titles in the collection range from the rare to the canonical. And it is our pleasure tonight to highlight some of the lesser screened gems from this collection for you here. So, to honor Pride and celebrate the LGBTQ community in this, the month of June, we have selected a verite drama, "Behind Every Good Man," from roughly 1966, and a short documentary work, "If She Grows up Gay," from 1983. Um, for which we would like to thank Frameline for allowing us to use, "If She Grows up Gay," this evening. Connecting these two short films within the program and to the larger community conversation they address, you will find segments from the groundbreaking, LGBTQ news magazine series "In the Life," which began as a variety show in 1992 and evolved into a news magazine format until its final episode, twenty years later in December of Twenty twelve. "In the Life," became a respected source for LGBTQ journalism, at a time when lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender folks were often invisible in mainstream media. There are a few people on the incredible team at the Archive that I would like to thank for their efforts in bringing this program together. First I want to highlight the work of Randy Yantek in our digital lab, who seamlessly helped to bring all of the elements here together into a single place on quite short notice, and with limited resources. Um, I too would like to thank the archives motion picture archivist, Todd Wiener, and John H. Mitchell television archivist, Mark Quigley for pointing myself and my fellow programmer, Paul Malcolm, to the works in our collection, from which we curated tonight's program. Um, and I would also like to thank Jennifer Rhee and Marissa Soto for helping to get the word out about this screening. Um, last but certainly not least, I want to give a huge massive thanks to our theater manager, Nate, Nathan Wolf, ah, who without a physical theater space, to manage, is currently behind the scenes pushing buttons and switching the levers as our defacto broadcaster this evening. Um, Nate, without your hands-on and intense dedication putting this program, on the screen would not be possible. So, thank you, Nate. I also want to thank Outfest UCLA Legacy Project Manager, Brendon Lucas. Who not only advised on tonight's program, but who has also generously given time over from his schedule to join us here this evening. And so to say a few words about tonight's program and the works you will find in, "Intersections." And to connect tonight's works to our current moment. I'm now going to switch over to Outfest's Brendon Lucas. [Brendon Lucas] Thanks so much, K. J., and thanks to everyone who is joining us online this afternoon. I'm Brendon Lucas, the Legacy Project Manager for the Outfest UCLA Legacy Project. And I'm very honored to represent Outfest for this virtual screening. And so I'd like to thank the programming and preservation teams at UCLA from the Television Archive, not only for their curatorial insights, but for the work needed to bring the selection, of films to audiences at home. So, from the acquisition and cataloging and physical conservation of the film and video materials within the Archive, to their, digital preservation and inclusion in this program. And my particular thanks go to Paul Malcolm, K. J. Relth and Todd Wiener, for all of your work in assembling this program to celebrate Pride month. As well as to take conscious steps towards acknowledging and rectifying the absences that we face when we're surveying moving images of the past, and with a particular eye toward black, indigenous and people of color LGBTQ individuals. So, a vital stage to my mind, in the coming out process, which is an ongoing process, is seeking out those who have come before us. Whether that's the queer and trans elders in our community. The people who were taken before their time. Or those whose sexuality or gender identity may be calling out to us between the lines of official history. Or whether, through inadvertent bias or willful admission, by past filmmakers, queer and trans people of color have routinely been left off screen in ? history. Their images and voices remain pushed to the margins, distorted or willfully erased. And it's more seldom still that the interlocking oppressions that gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender, black, indigenous and people of color face, are examined on screen through fiction or non fiction. So from live documentary, to narrative films, to news reporting and interviews, the segments that are assembled here represent an opportunity to correct this record. Showing us powerful critique, moments of mourning and triumph. And images of the everyday for LGBTQ people of color, which itself can be revolutionary. As we celebrate fifty years of commemorating the Stonewall Riots, fifteen years of the Outfest UCLA Legacy Projects and nearly forty years of collaboration between, UCLA Film and Television Archive, UCLA, and our organization, Outfest. I just want to take an opportunity to rally people, to come out of the closet again. You are part of LGBTQ history. Consider the organizations that you may be a part of. The activism that can be taken part in. The contributions that you and your communities have made. Whether in celebration or in outrage. And how they're going to be interpreted and remembered through the material traces that we leave. So, if you are a filmmaker, if you're a documentarian, student filmmaker, an artist working in film or video, a producer, a collector or the home movie maker among your friends or family, or you know someone who is. Consider what encountering these kinds of images of LGBTQ life, can mean to someone who's coming out. Or who's trying to trace their own lineage as a queer or trans person of color. We can work to expand our collective understanding of the whole breadth and depth of LGBTQ Plus experience, including and especially communities of color. Best of all, when moving images are made and shared on the terms of those whose lives are being picked. To put it simply, you can let those generations who come after us know that you were here. So through, Outfest's UCLA Legacy Projects, the UCLA Film and Television Archives, maintains one of the only programs of its kind dedicated to preserving and making accessible LGBTQ moving images. Consider getting in touch with me or, and, or, and Todd Wiener, at the UCLA Film and Television Archives, if you're looking for a home where your LGBTQ moving images can live on, film or video. Ah, as K. J. reminded me when we were talking about this program. We should be encouraged to think, of particular and unique ways, that film and video can bear special witness to our experiences and to make visible our inner traits and struggles. And most of all our current moment shows the incredible shifts of public consciousness that are possible when ordinary people, have access to the technology to document their lives and the injustices they face, when they're navigating everyday life in our cities and towns. So as you watch the film and video assembled here, just consider, the power that making these stories, ah, of people of color and LGBTQ Plus people, visible, has to change minds and to save lives. So thank you once again for joining us in the UCLA Film and Television Archive's virtual screening room. And with that, we invite you to enjoy, "Intersections: Race, Gender, Sexuality and the LGBTQ Family." [ITL Reporter] I heard once, um I can't remember where I heard it from, um, [Reporter] That usually when society's on the crux of, a major, kind of like, temple morale change, [Reporter] that the most violence comes out, the most famous appropriation, the most twisting of ideas, [Reporter] of that which threatens those empowers starts to occur. [Reporter] In a way, we're starting to see that. [Reporter] Um, I think, in the late Eighties, you know, [Reporter] rising up again, right up to the, the L. A., [Reporter] you know, incidents, the national incidents actually, not only L. A. [Marlon Riggs] Mm, hmm. [Reporter] Um. [Reporter] Even Toronto, you know, type of thing. [Riggs] No, I mean, I think definitely that, our society is coming to a head. ah, that the kinds of, volcanic eruptions, the violence, the cultural civil wars that go on now. Ah, the backlash against feminism. The hysterical, ah pro life, quote-unquote movement, is an attempt to try to, return this society to the veneer of civilization, that people once believed in. It never existed, of course. But it was a veneer that people accepted as truth. And you find people unwilling to, despite the overwhelming pressures, of society and all the populations that are just forced by being here, ushering in a new order. A new kind of society. You find people refusing to, go. Refusing to move. Refusing to be budged. And wanting to, not only hold, where we presently are, but to return us back to those glorious days, when we didn't have any of these problems. When faggots and dykes, were not even known to exist. Were never acknowledged. When black people knew their place and accepted it, so-called in the myth. Where women had their place, and nurtured family and didn't exacerbate tensions in the household or in the work place or in the political arena. When we didn't have to deal with third-world populations. We didn't have to deal with our responsibilities to the environment. Where things simply seemed to be okay. And that world, of course, will not return. It never really existed. But it definitely will not return, because we are not going to go back into closets to bow our heads. We are not going to return to cooking and cleaning and doing the domestic work. Those days are over. Ah,and the right has not quite, realized that. And I think you're seeing the kind of fervor from that community, in order, in part to continue to deny the inescapable reality, which is coming upon them. [Reporter] In the words of, ah, the Anita Hill trial, "They just don't get it." [Laughter] [Reporter] Yeah. Great. [Riggs] I mean, I think the Twenty First century is gonna see major cataclysms. I mean, the Rodney King verdict and the rioting that occurred, and the kind of malaise, as well as, just general con, convulsions. We're gonna see much more of that to the degree that we continue to deny, the contradictions in our social reality. And it's going to occur in pockets. It will not occur in the kinds of pockets where we can feel that it's isolated and removed from us. It will continue to come closer and closer to home wherever home may be. And that will force change and unfortunately, it may be bloody. But I don't think it has to be with the degree that we continue to engage in this, pathological denial, of reality. We only, create the kind of powder keg that will someday result in a major social explosion. And devastation. [Theme music] [Andy] I went to the library and, in it there's this, I think a lot of people would say, a taboo section. Um, where all the books on gay and lesbian issues were kept. And I went to that section hoping to find something that might explain, my identity and might explain the feelings I, that I was, um, struggling to, ah, come to terms with. And I came across this book. And it was written by a trans woman. And it was fairly old. It was probably from the Seventies or Eighties and it was, um, under the fairly new books. and it was the only book on transgender issues. So, I took it home, and I can remember very vividly that day, I was, I was mesmerized by it. It was about two hundred, three hundred pages long. And I read the book in a day. Mothers always find things, that you wanna, that you want to hide or keep, um, secret from them. And she found the book under my dresser. And, mind you, I was still at church. I was coming outside actually to take a, to take a breath of fresh air because it was so hot inside. And, I have never in my life, seen my mother drive so fast into the, anywhere. And here she was, like a, like a witch on a broomstick. Just running out there, in her car, down to the church driveway. And, she stopped the car right in front of me and said get in. She looked at me, as she was driving fifteen miles per hour down the road, and said, "You have to get rid of the book." And at that moment, I realized that, now wasn't the right time to talk about these issues and maybe I should hold off. And, looking back on it now. I suffocated a part of me for a good, four to five years until I was a senior in high school and realized that, I can't hide this from my parents, or my friends, or my colleagues any longer, and I came out. [Katherine Linton] We begin at the American Indian Community House in New York. For more than thirty years, this organization has provided support services for Native Americans. And worked to foster understanding between native and non-native communities. Our first segment, is about a Native American youth, and a crime that has become all too familiar. Some of the victims have names you might recognize like, Matthew Shepard and Brandon Teena, the real-life subject of the film, "Boys Don't Cry." But others like, Fred Martinez, a transgendered Navajo youth, haven't made the national headlines, or movie marquees. Yet for the gay community of Cortez, Colorado, Martinez's murder had a major impact. Highlighting issues of sexual orientation as well as those of class and race. [Music] [Pauline Mitchell] Well, to me he was happy all the time. And he was always outspoken. [Suzanne Casey] He just loved life. He was, you know, he had fun doing whatever he did. You know, he was a really social person. [Mitchell] There was nothing for him to hide. He wasn't hiding anything. He was just saying, I'm just being myself. [Mitchell] He enjoyed being the way he was. And, enjoyed having a lot of friends. On June 16th, 2001, Fred C. Martinez, FC to his family and friends, a sixteen year old nadleeh, or transgendered, Navajo youth, went to a carnival at the Ute Mountain Roundup Rodeo, in his hometown of Cortez, Colorado. He came in and he goes, "Hi Mom. I'm home." He went in the back room. Got something and came back out and he says, "Well, I'll be back later. I love you Mom." And I told him, "Be careful and take care." [Sniffs] So he left here. That's the last time I seen him. [Linton] Five days later, Fred's partially decomposed body was found off a dirt road below a canyon rim. [Linton] Not far from where he lived. He had been bludgeoned to death with a rock. [Linton] In the weeks following the grim discovery, [Linton] eighteen year old Shaun Murphy was arrested for the murder, based on tips that he had bragged about quote beating up a fag. [Linton] According to reports, Murphy and a friend had given Fred a ride home on the night he disappeared. [Linton] After dropping him off, the two had discussed Fred's sexual orientation. [Linton] Murphy then left the apartment they were visiting, and returned twenty minutes later covered in blood. [John R. Peters-Campbell] Someone's future is gone. Was just erased. Um, who met a violent brutal death. Probably because he was transgendered. Nadleeh. Um. Changed the world for me. [Linton] John Peters-Campbell moved with his partner Alan Cook to Cortez four years ago. [Linton] Becoming an active member of the local community, as well as a board member for the Four Corners Gay and Lesbian Alliance for Diversity. [Linton] An educational social and advocacy organization. [Linton] Learning about the circumstances surrounding Fred's murder, brought home some ugly truths. [Campbell] I've never thought of this as a dangerous town. And then I realized of course, it is dangerous for some people. [Campbell] I was devastated because Fred was someone, not that I knew personally, but that I'd seen around. [Campbell] And it made me feel good as an older gay man, that there were kids who were coming out that early. And it never occurred to me that they were in danger. [Linton] In fact, Fred's two-spirit, transgender identity, was not something that high school officials, and many other people in Cortez, were prepared to handle. [Mitchell] There was one time they told me that he was wearing, ah, shoes, that he's not supposed to be wearing. And then later on, these girls come in, she was wearing the same shoes. And I just sit there and I said, well, I always call him, Sonny, you know, and I said, "Sonny, look over there at Chris wearing the same shoes as you are, you know. What come she's not being sent home." [Betsy Stephens] Fred was sent home on a fairly regular basis, because he would be wearing eyeliner. I think once he was sent home, he's wearing jellies on his feet. Those little girl's shoes. And that is, that is not the proper way to respond to a child that's being harassed. One time, my, um, little cousin, she, um, her and a friend and FC were walking, and, um. She said that these, um, anglo [?] , these white boys came up and, they were saying stuff, yelling at her like, you know, "Hey faggot." "What are you guys hanging around with this guy for?" and things like that. [Linton] Kids like Fred have to contend not only with anti-gay bias, but also with the racism that exists in a border town like Cortez. [Linton] Located right next to the Ute Mountain Indian Reservation. [Casey] I know there's a lot of harsh feelings, in this area against, a lot of natives. I, I don't know if it's because they, they're, you know, Cortez is just right next door to a reservation, or, [Carolyn Wagner] I think, many in the gay community in Cortez and Durango, [Wagner] felt like they had this false sense of, [Wagner] security or safety. [Wagner] Because they were white, middle-class, ah, productive, involved members of the community. And they really had their world shattered in many ways. [Wagner] And they're struggling with what they now recognize as some of their own biases. [Wagner] I'm so proud of how folks are working here. [Wagner] I've never seen such hard work and dedication and the willingness, [Wagner] to even, to go through situations that are painful. And I think a lot of us can learn lessons from the community. [Linton] As news spread about the murder, [Linton] 4 c GLAAD, the Colorado Anti-Violence Project and PFLAG or Parents Families and Friends of Lesbians and Gays, [Linton] combined their resources to provide support to Fred's family, insure that the crime was thoroughly investigated and the media accurately informed. [Campbell] We realized that this was potentially a very serious situation that had much more far-reaching, far-reaching consequences, then, then just Cortez and Montezuma County. [Linton] Carolyn Wagner and Gabby Clayton, PFLAG moms whose own sons were victims of hate crimes, headed to Cortez to be part of the support team. [Wagner] We're a rapid response team of parents, of hate crime victims, to come and assist other families' parents, who are in the midst of a situation that we are very familiar with. We went through this alone. [Wagner] And what our goal is, is to ensure that, if parents do not want to be alone, they're not going to be alone. We're going to be there. [Wagner] And, ah, Pauline asked for us to come and help her because it can be very hard. You're dealing with the grief and shock of losing a child, on top of dealing with, ah, the justice system, media, organizations you've never heard of. [Wagner] And hatemongers. Always the hate mongers. And it just, [Wagner] It just can be more than one can bear. [Linton] Finally, 4 c GLAAD and the Colorado Anti-Violence Project, [Linton] enlisted the help of the Gay and Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation, to help handle the media. [Cathy Renna] What we bring particularly, is media expertise. How to handle the media. How to educate the media. [Renna] And, it's a really important piece of the puzzle. Because how the media portrays, and, and writes about, ah, bias-motivated crimes, has a huge, huge impact on the outcome of investigations. It also has a huge outcome, in terms of whether or not people learn something from this. And, and how families are treated frankly, 'cause many times the coverage can be sensational. And it's very disrespectful. [Sage Douglas Remington] I was very concerned about how the media would handle, the, the issue of Fred's murder. [Linton] Sage Douglas Eagle Remington, a member of the Southern Ute tribe, has been involved in the Indian Movement since the Sixties. [Linton] And in the early Nineties, founded the Two-Spirit Society of Colorado, to address the specific needs of gay and lesbian Native Americans. In my involvement in the gay and lesbian community in the last ten years. I've seen it transform itself, from, crisis management events, to a very coordinated effort. And that's what happened in Cortez. I was, I was very, I felt very assured that there were a group of people, that were in a position to be able to take the issue, monitor it, control it, so it doesn't get out of hand and make sure that there was equity, in, in the reporting of the news and there was equity, in describing Fred's lifestyle. [Linton] Although the circumstances of Fred's murder, echoed those of Matthew Shepard in many ways. [Linton] This story was not one that many national media outlets were anxious to tell. [Renna] It's hard not to look at a picture of Matthew Shepard and look at a picture of Fred Martinez, [Renna] and, not really get why the media were not as interested. Fred was many things, that when you add them all up, [Renna] made him very much the other, for, for people. He was a person of color. He was Navajo. [Renna] He was poor. He was transgender. He also identified as gay. He was a complicated kid in a tough situation with no privilege. [Native American music, chanting, drums, continues under eulogy] [Mitchell] My son Fred C. Martinez Jr., FC, as he was known by family and friends, [Mitchell] left this world much too soon. [Mitchell] Because of those who fear and hate anyone who was different. [Renna] One of these days we're gonna look back and, [Renna] understand how historic the community organizing around Fred Martinez's death really was. [Renna] Because this was, in my mind, the first time at this level, that we have put together all the pieces to really, [Renna] make positive change, out of a really horrifying tragedy. [Remington] The Indians believe that there is no death, only a change of worlds. [Remington] So, Fred is in another world now, and obviously a better place where we will eventually be. I also know in my heart, that he has brought us all together. In many places, everywhere, tonight. That we will now walk together on a path of truth and justice. And never again allow our children and loved ones, to suffer in silence, or walk alone. "Behind Every Good Man..." [Music] [Trans woman, Narrator] I'd like to live a respectable life. That's for sure. [Narrator] I'd like to live, a happy life. [Narrator] I want to settle down. I believe everybody wants to settle down. [Street noise, traffic] [Narrator] As far as marriage goes. I want a man that wants to go places, do things, make something of himself. [Narrator] You know the old saying. Behind every good man there's a woman. [Street noise, traffic, unintelligible chatter] [Music, Dionne Warwick sings, 'Reach Out For Me." When you go through a day, and the things that people say. [Warwick sings] They make you feel so small. [Warwick sings] They make you feel that, your heart will never just stop aching. [Warwick sings] And when you just can't, accept the abuse you are taking. [Warwick sings] Darlin', [with back up singers] reach out for me. [Warwick sings] Don't you worry, [with back up singers] I'll see you through. [Warwick sings] You just have to, [with back up singers] reach out for me. [Warwick sings] I'll be there and, [with back up singers] I'll comfort you. [Street noise, traffic] [Instrumental opening "Wishin' and Hopin'"] [Narrator over music] There was this time I was at this gas station out in West L. A. and, [Narrator] I went into the men's room not because I was a man, but just because I wanted to go into the men's room, period. [Narrator] I don't think about which one to go into, I just, I have my choice, you know [Dionne Warwick sings, "Wishin' and Hopin'" That won't get you into his arms. [Warwick sings] So if you're lookin' [with back up singers] to find love you can share. [Warwick sings] All you've gotta do is, [with back up] hold him and kiss him and love him. [Warwick sings] And show him that you care. [Instrumental] [Warwick sings] Show him that you care. [Narrator] So I was in this restroom and like I was brushing my hair. And this guy walks in, very good-looking. And he said, "Oh, excuse me, Miss. I must be in the wrong room. They must have the signs mixed up." [Warwick sings] for him. 'Cause you won't get him. [Narrator over music] So in a very calm, [Narrator] masculine voice I turned around and I said, "No, you're not in the wrong room. This is the men's room." [Warwick sings] Plannin' and dreamin' his kisses will start. [Narrator over music] And about this time, I noticed that he had a badge underneath his coat. And it was the police. [Warwick sings] So if you're thinkin' of how great, true love is. [Narrator over music] So, they took me outside and they, you know, ran the usual make on me to see if I was wanted for anything by the law. [Narrator] And since I wasn't that made things groovy, so we stood there and talked awhile. [Narrator] So one of the young ones that was in the car says like, [Narrator] "It's too bad you're a boy because you're a real knockout." [Warwick sings] You gotta show him that you care, for him. [Narrator] And so I accepted it as a compliment. [Warwick sings] to do. [Warwick sings] Wear your hair just for him, 'cause, [Warwick sings] You won't get him Thinkin' and a-prayin', wishin' and a-hopin' [Warwick sings] 'Cause wishin' and hopin' and thinkin' and prayin', [Warwick sings] plannin' and dreamin' his kisses will start. [Warwick sings] That won't get you into his heart. [Warwick sings] So if you're thinkin' of [with back up] how great true love is. [Warwick sings] All you gotta do is hold him and kiss him and squeeze him and love him. [Warwick sings] Yeah, just do it. [Warwick sings with back up] And after you do, you will be his, [Instrumental] [Warwick sings with back up] you will be his. [Instrumental] [Warwick sings with back up] you will be his. [Pages flutter] [Street noise] [Window closing] [The Supremes sing, "Turn to Stone." Take your love from me, [Supremes sing] I'll turn to stone. [Supremes sing] Turn to stone. [Supremes sing] If your love I couldn't call my own, [Supremes sing] I'll turn to stone. [Supremes sing] Turn to stone. [Supremes sing] I need your love in every way. [Supremes sing] It's your love I cling to, when things slip away. [Supremes sing] Take your love away, I'll be lost and alone. [Supremes sing] No reason for living, all purpose would be gone. [Supremes sing] Without you there, for my eyes to behold. [Supremes sing] My life would be empty, my heart would grow old. [Supremes sing] If you take your love from me, [Supremes sing] I'll turn to stone. [Supremes sing] Turn to stone. [Supremes sing] If your love I couldn't call my own, [Supremes sing] I'll turn to stone. [Supremes sing] Turn to stone. [Supremes sing] When I think of love, I think of me and you. [Supremes sing] When I think of happiness, I think of us too. [Supremes sing] You're my yesterdays, and all my tomorrows. [Supremes sing] You're the air I breathe, everything I need. [Supremes sing] If from my life, you were ever gone. [Supremes sing] I'd fall to pieces, you I depend on. [Supremes sing] If you take your love from me, [Supremes sing] I'll turn to stone. [Supremes sing] Turn to stone. [Supremes sing] If your love I couldn't call my own, [Supremes sing] I'll turn to stone. [Supremes sing] Turn to stone. [Supremes sing] Picture me without you, you see someone searching. [Supremes sing] A figure of sadness, who's heart won't stop hurting. "In the," [over Theme music] [Theme music continues] [Music] [Terry McKeon] I always wanted kids, forever. And, ah, being gay, I, I wasn't quite sure how I would wind up doing that. um, and then Anne came along and, um, it sort of happened. It was great. [Anne Quinn] And for us to have set this up so that we were equal parents in the same house. Co-parenting on a regular day-to-day basis, people were a little freaked out. [McKeon] But Ann and I were both single at the time. I'm still single, but Ann, of course, lives with Joyce and she's with all of us, actually. [Music] [Scott Davenport over music] I think for, ah, for us, it was an important joint decision. [Davenport] We've been together fifteen years at the time. And I think that we as a couple were ready for that decision, at that point. [Tim Fisher] The kids in the gay and lesbian community are very planned for. [Fisher] Especially these new kinds of families where the parents are out and then decide to create a family. Is very planned for. We were, we read everything under the sun. The psychological literature on gay parenting. We read, ah, Dr. Spock. Ah, you know, you name it, we read it. [Music] [Michael Elsasser] People don't ever expect that, ah, white parents can have a black child, or vice versa. [Doug Robinson] Rescuing a African American child, was, very important and critical to me. [Elsasser] The kids know that Justin and Zachary have two dads. [Elsasser] We deliberately chose two father names like daddy and poppy, for that specific reason. We're both fathers. [Music] [Roberta Stokes] Considering parenting now. [Stokes] I guess in my early thirties. That's when I started. Because at that point I had already, [Stokes] taken care of my choices as a career and having Jaque in my life, helping me raise them. It's very important to have solid, foundation and good examples, children to be around. [Jaque Dupree] We're a living example that, ah, [Stokes] Exactly. [Dupree] lesbians can raise a family and, ah, quite well. In having children, certainly, we are teaching them, as my parents taught me about discrimination. We are teaching them, giving them the tools to handle, what is homophobia and what is racism. [McKeon] This house is going to be the kind of house and has the kind of family value of, [McKeon] of speaking your mind and letting your parents know how you feel. [McKeon] And, and your parents helping you in return deal with those feelings. [Stokes] And they respect who we are and we respect who they are. And you know, that's a part of what parenting has done for me too. Showing me and you must respect, the children and then they learn to respect who you are as well. [Music] [Music] [Robinson] The definition, definition of family has changed in this country. And, and, and I think, that's important that it has changed. [McKeon] My family was great. All of them were great. [McKeon] Um, until Joyce came and then we didn't look so traditional and so straight anymore. [Fisher] Especially having two men walking down the street pushing an infant. You know, a couple days old, going into the drugstore. Suddenly, a little old lady runs up to you and says, well, "Where's the mother," you know? They're just upset not seeing a female role model, you know handling this kid, you know, you're gonna drop them they're not dressed warmly enough. You get all this stuff. [McKeon] Or I find myself in positions of people assuming, that I have a wife at home because I'm a man with children. And, sometimes that means, you know, being in a store and someone saying, "Where's your wife?" And me winding up saying well, "I don't quite have a wife." Um. [Quinn laughs] Well, they're both at home. [McKeon laughs] They're both at home. [Davidson] In many respects, um, we are the, ah, "Leave It to Beaver," family of the Nineties. [Robinson] It's not an issue for our children, it's more of an issue for the society in general. After our children were born. we lived in D. C. at the time, and we went through the process of second parent adoption. [Paula Ettlebrick] If lesbian gay couples are raising a child together, the problem is only one of them is a legally recognized parent. If one is a biological or had been the adoptive parent. The question for us as lawyers is how do we change that so that both of them, um, can be recognized as legal parents. And second parent adoption has been the strategy we've used. [Fisher] But, that's an expensive process. That's a process which depends where you live, whether, what your chances are for success. And the majority of gay lesbian parents don't have those protections. [Elasser] We've drawn up as many papers as we could on our own with a lawyer, [Elasser] to cover some, [Elasser] some details. [Elasser] Um, I am not legally, they're parents. [Dupree] We did a last will and testament. We did a health proxy. And we did a medical power of attorney. [Elasser] We are domestic partners in the city. Although that only allows me to visit him in jail and in the hospital. [Baby babble] How our life has been affected is a question which is impossible to answer in a sound bite. Both of us are class parents in our children's respective class. We've coached our children's soccer teams. Baseball teams. [Dupree] Going back and forth from the cooking to the, you know, [Dupree] driving the vehicle, getting out there playing the softball. I mean, we do it all. [Davenport] I almost can't remember what it was that we used to do. But with what we do now is we plan for playdates. Or go to an afternoon matinee of Jungle Book. Or, um, or decide are we going to break down and take the kids to Chuckie Cheese. [Quinn] And we all go to the PTA meetings just so that they can, um, you know, know that there are gay people at the PTA meetings. [Laughs] [Dupree] When, when folks see that, [Dupree] it, it puts, it puts a [?] on anything that, any question about whether, [Dupree] this is right or, [Dupree] wrong or healthy. You know it's, if they see strength, they see it strong. [Music] [Denise] Through my pregnancy, I had a lot of trouble. Right, and I had gained a lot of weight. And then I was, depressed afterwards because of all the weight I gained, because I used to be so small and such a fox. And, [Laughs] and I had blown up so much, right. And, Um. Due to pregnancy, I had personal, you know, problems with my family. [Denise voice-over] When I was, when I was sixteen, that's when I found out I was pregnant, [Denise] for the third time. [Denise] I had, had two abortions previous, [Denise] to having Jan. But at that time, I thought I was too young [Denise] to be having a baby at fourteen or fifteen because I knew I was still in junior high school then. [Denise] When I found out I was pregnant I really didn't know what I was going to go through but I was kind of scared. [Denise] You know, in a sense, I thought that, oh, I'm in love and he's gonna stay here and we're gonna live happily ever after. [Denise] But I found in the long run that it wasn't like that. [Denise] But Tony wasn't able to come up, because he was in Florida. He finally came up when she was like two months old. And while he was here, we got married, and, two days after we got married, that's when I moved back down to Florida. And, you know, I started finding out Tony, from his family, how he really was and you know the whole six years that we were together, you know, I was believing all this about him and it was, you know, a lot of it was a bunch of garbage. [Denise voice-over] We had our own apartment. And Tony would go out, [Denise] you know, and he wouldn't fulfill his responsibilities as, as a husband and a father, [Denise] toward me and Jan. He felt that his duty was, [Denise] was to, ah, just keep a roof over our heads and food in our mouth, and that was his job, right? [Denise] So, um after a while then we got into a little hassle, then I came back to New York. [Denise] I really say to myself, you know, I'm sick of it. I don't want to deal with it anymore. [Denise] But then I say, you know, who was gonna take care of my daughter, you know, her father's already, [Denise] going off, in his own world, you know, so it's like she only has me now. [Denise] Wooo. [Ambient park noise] [Denise] Come on. Get up. [Jan] Mama. [Denise] And after I came back to New York, I was, I went back to my old high school. I was in the 12th grade. That was my last year. [Denise] I was doing so bad from everything that was going on with me, that I had, was failing all the time. [Denise] So when I thought I was going to graduate, [Denise] they told me that I had to do a whole 'nother two years, because my credits weren't up enough. [Denise] So I said I, with Jan, I didn't have time for that. [Denise] But I don't know how long, I go to school two days a week Monday, Tuesday. And I work with a society. [Denise] They train you for your whatever goals you have, you want, [Denise] to develop, right? [Denise] They train you for that there. Or they can refer you to somewhere, somebody who can help you in that field. [Ambient office noise, drawer opens, paper rustles] [Phone rings] [Denise] I like the school. I like it. It's very comfortable. [Denise] You can relax. [Denise] And you can relate. You can open up. In whatever class you're in. [Denise] It's supposed to be mainly for parenting and for peer counseling, but you can really open up in all your classes. [Instructor] Being young parents people probably were always looking at you and saying, tsk, tsk, tsk. [All] Yes. [Laughter] [Instructor] How do you feel when that happens? Do you feel like defending yourselves? [All] No. No. [Instructor] No? [Instructor] You sometimes do? Okay one at a time one at a time. Yeah, old people, right, go ahead, tell us. [Unidentified woman] She shouldn't be in that situation, she in now. Look at her now, look at my son and look at me and they whisper to each other. And, they'd be staring. And they see a baby with a baby. [Instructor] A baby with a baby. [Instructor] How does it make you feel though? What do you want to say to that person? [Woman] I'm pregnant. [Instructor] Yeah? [Woman] Around nine months. These two ladies come walking down Burnside and one looks at the other one, said, "Look at that little girl, pregnant." [Woman] I felt embarrassed. They all turned around and looked at me 'cause, [Instructor] You felt embarrassed? Yeah, I felt embarrassed. Look at that little girl, pregnant. [Denise] I used to DJ when I was you know, my early teens. I used to be a DJ with Jan's father. So it was like I got more fun out of putting the equipment together, you know, and working with a lot of buttons and wires and things like that, you know, so, ah, working with tools, you know, I like to do all of that. A desk job like a have now is not for me, because I can't stand paperwork, right? But in five years, I hope, I hope to, at least, be doing, you know, one, be in one of the three fields, like I says. At first I wanted to get into computers, but then, you know, I said that wasn't what I really wanted either. You know, what is, I found it to be either carpenter work or construction or electronics? [Jan] Whoop, I [?] [Denise voice-over] I would say, if I hadn't gotten raped, [Denise] two years ago, then maybe I might consider it. [Denise] Because even now I think about it, but I'm scared to, I'm scared to even think of having sex with another man because of what I went through. [Denise] And, it's like a fear that I think will stay in me. A lot of people say, oh you'll grow out of it or it'll change or you'll go back to him. [Denise] But from what I feel now, I don't think so. [Room noise, street noise. Dog barks] [Denise] After Renee, and I, you know, we were friends during the summer. Right, before that, but we, you know, we had gotten close during the summer. [Denise] Renee had, um, was going on her vacation and she asked me to stay here, you know, being that she knew what I was going through at home. [Renee] Can you lift that up? [Denise] I was going, you know, from one friend's house to the other friend's house because I couldn't deal with what was at home. [Renee] Is it heavy? So when Renee went on her vacation, she asked me to stay here and keep the house, you know, [Renee and Jan, groans] [Renee] You got it? You can pour it. Go pour it. [Denise] I wasn't working, I wasn't in school, that you know. [Denise] So, I didn't have any financial support at all. [Denise] So, ah, I felt I had to do something, you know. [Denise] To thank Renee, you know, for letting us stay here and being there when I needed somebody to be there. And, um, I was cooking and cleaning and doing the washing, ironing, a regular housewife. And so, ah, instead of going back to my mother's house, Renee just told me, why don't I stay. You know, we were able, we had adjusted to each other's habits and ways and moods, right? So we got along. [Denise] Ahhhh, what? [Denise voice-over] But being there, after we did get together, [Denise voice-over] you know, being there we can get along with each other and, it changed me in a sense that, [Denise voice-over] okay, as far as responsibilities I had, I didn't just have Jan now, I had, you know, Jan and Renee. [Denise voice-over] Then I could, I feel I could always deal with. [Denise] Do you want to go out and play in the snow? [Denise] Throw snow balls at Mommy and Aunt 'Ne? [Jan] Huh? [Denise] Hmm? [Jan] Uh? [Denise] You want to throw snow balls at Mommy and Aunt 'Ne? [Jan] Huh? [Denise] Now why do you do that? [Denise] Suppose I punch you out? [Jan] My bad [?] [Denise] Yes, sir, I'm going to punch you out for messing up your clothes. [Denise] Here. [Slaps Jan's hand and table loudly] Don't put it on your clothes! [Jan] Ouch! [Denise] I know it hurts. [Denise] Eat your peanut butter and jelly. [Jars bang on table, lids close.] [Jan] Mm, mmm. [Denise] Mm, mmm. [Denise] Mm, mmm. [Denise] Go ahead and eat. Mm, mmm. [Cupboard doors bang shut] [Denise] Do you want some milk or do you want juice? [Jan] I want milk. [Denise] Milk? [Jan] No, juice. [Denise] Make up your mind, girl friend. [Jan] Juice! [Denise] But Renee was like, I had to get used to a whole, you know, a whole new person. I had to get used to everything that she was into, you know, and try, and try and get it to a point where we could be together. You know, do everything together, find out what we like to do together or separately but, you know, try and keep it together. And, I'm, happy now. I'm happy now. Ah, that's my ring home, but, [Laughs] We, we, we did get engaged about two weeks ago. I got my ring, and, we have plans, to get married. I want to get married this summer but you know with school and all, so I have to postpone that for a while. But, um, It's not much of a change 'cause, like I said, I don't see it as being with another woman, I see this just being with somebody that I, I love I want to be next to, you know. [Renee] And I've been here, for like twenty seven years. [Renee] So, for living in this apartment itself, I've been living here, say four years. [Renee] And, you know, basically here by myself, you know, and living the life I live. [Renee] And having company and friends over, every once in a while. [Renee] But most of the time now, I haven't really, well not now I'm saying, but before. [Renee] I wasn't here that much. It was just, like me, running home to take care of my cat. Going to work. [Renee] Coming back. Feeding myself and my cat. And then keep going out. And that was more my schedule. I was always out. [Renee] That was the life, you know, I was enjoying myself a little bit. That's not to say, I'm not enjoying myself now, but you know. [Denise giggles] [Renee] That's how it was. And then when I met Denise and Jan. [Renee] The only thing that really changed now because I always wanted a family and have kids around me, because I like 'em. [Renee] Like, I like to see how they progress with themselves. And what they learn in their mannerisms. How kids pick up certain things. And I can see that with Jan, you know, I can see that now, you know, grow up, you know, inch wise, and maturity and her, her, just the language. You know, the words she used. [Renee] It's not really that much of a change, just that we can't go out. And I've, considered this. I've known about that since I wanted this family, I've known about, you can't go out. You gotta worry about having a babysitter. You know, you gotta plan things. And that's the things we got to worry about right now. [Renee] Just programming ourselves. With Jan, Jan has adjusted to Renee a lot. Renee has adjusted to Jan. And, to me Renee holds a big father image on Jan even though she's a woman, she holds a big father image on Jan. And Jan knows who's who. Like I said, she knows who's who. Who's mommy, who's Renee. She calls Renee, daddy sometimes. [Laughs] But she does know. [Renee] The only thing Jan, now, is she might get confused. She'll call me mommy sometimes and she'll call Denise, mommy. [Renee] But, she'll say, no Mo, uh, 'Ne, and she'll go back and forth like that. [Renee] But otherwise it's no, it's no problem. That's what I was into. I was in, I was into guys before, you know when I was younger, you know. Okay, I didn't really, I wasn't really into him until I was like thirteen years old, right? And that's like when I met Tony. And then through those years, a lot has happened to me. You know, with men. And it was it was like a big turn-off. You know, I don't, you know, they don't interest me anymore. They can't do anything for me. To me, all men are just alike. Right? And they can't do anything for me. Being with Renee, It's like Renee remains a woman herself, so she knows what a woman, how a woman likes to be pleased, in all senses of the way. [Giggles] Right? She knows exactly what's what. And I guess she like, puts herself in my position at times. You know, would Denise like this, would she want this, you know? According to what the situation is. But, she's there all the time and that's one thing with Tony. Tony wasn't there. Tony didn't give any time, [Denise voice-over] with me and Jan. [Denise] Ah, no money, you know, everything that we're supposed to have, he didn't, you know, he didn't, [Denise] live up to that at all. And being with Renee, Renee is there all the time. She gives both, [Denise] time and love to both of us. And she listens when she can and, you know, we understand each other's ways and, you know, when one needs time, then we, then they have that time. [Renee] Corn. Looky here. No, here. See? Corn. [Renee] And this one, what's this? [Renee] Sunflower seeds? [Jan] I'll eat it. [Renee and Denise] No, no no! [Renee] That's for the birds. [Children screaming] [Denise voice-over] I feel like in a sense you have to be cool enough to really be able to deal with it. [Denise] You know, I don't just let anybody and everybody know, hey, it's like this. [Denise] Because a lot of people, a lot of people figure, [Denise] with gay women, that oh she's gay, she's gonna attack me. [Denise] You know, and they have that attitude and that can, like keep you away, or keep people, a lot of people away from you. [Denise] But, ah, the people who I, who do know, what I'm into and about Renee and I, they, they can handle it. [Denise] You know, when they accept it, they accept me 'cause they checked me out before they found out what was what. [Denise] So, you know, they like me and then when I told what I was about, it didn't bother them. [Denise] What's your problem, Billy? [Denise] I think you gave me a hug and promised me you wasn't going to be inside no more. [Denise] Give me a hug. Give me another one. Give me another one. [Loud bang] [Denise] All right. A lot of people asked me, you know, as far as Renee in my relationship, you know, do we think that ah, do, am I going to guide Jan, towards being into the gay life, you know, and that's her prerogative. If she wants to, if she, you know, grows up gay, right? That will be her choice. I won't say hey, it's like this or it's like that. You know men are this, or women are this. It's gonna be her prerogative. If she wants to get into electronics. Because like when I was coming up and I wanted to go to that type of school, that type of training school. My mother refused to send me there. You know, it wasn't for women, but with Jan, if that's what she wants to do. She can do that. She can get into whatever she wants to, that, you know, within the limits. [Renee] Being a family now, is it's no big problem. And, [Renee] as far as Jan, I mean, I, I don't think that she would have any problem. [Renee] I'm gonna, you know, we're gonna raise her as, as a normal family. [Renee] I mean, if she wants to go have a boyfriend, that's her prerogative. She can have a mind of her own [Renee] I just want her to be street wise and also have some, some, some brains. [Renee] Now, I want, I want know, I want her to know what she's getting into. [Renee] Before she gets into it. She might want to experience it, but I'll try to guide her out of that. [Renee] But, you know, how kids are, they want to go test it for themselves. [Renee] And um, [Renee] I don't think she will have too much of a problem. [Renee] I mean, people around here now, they've always known what's going on. And they don't shut us off or laugh at us. [Renee] Or, you know make booing noise or anything like that. So it hasn't been a problem around here. [Renee] It might be in another neighborhood. It might be, I don't, I'm not sure. Over here, it's pretty much open. [Renee] And people are, you know, they already know what's going on. So it's no problem. [Renee] Do you think there's any kind of affect on Jan? [Denise] I don't know how to answer that now, because, [Denise] like you say, she's gonna have her own choice. Right? And, she knows the difference between a man and a woman and, you know, so forth and so on. And, I think, she understands what's, she doesn't understand but she knows, what's going on. And she knows, [Renee] How do you know that? [Denise] I know, I, because, she knows, she knows. Who's Tony and who's 'Ne? Right? [Renee] Yeah. [Denise] Okay? [Laughter] [Renee] You made your point. [Denise] Okay. She knows. And, um, I don't see where, I don't know, not, maybe it's too early to tell now, if it's, if it's bothering her, or really if she understands it. [Denise] But when she does, when I feel that she is old enough to understand, then, [Denise] I will explain her, through her years coming up until she has a full understanding of what's going on. It was hard. My, I had, I had a very hard and serious delivery, you know. My mother didn't tell me until after it was all over that, we both almost didn't make it. You know, yeah, and they had to induce my labor and, it took a long time and they thought we both, because Jan's heart was pumping too fast. And I was short of breath and it was, it was a lot of hell. So, I have to think about that when I think about, Do I want to have another baby? Do I want to go through that? [Denise] When Jan's around other kids or babies, you know, she's just so into them. [Denise] She wants to change the pampers but she's only 2 years old. [Denise] She wants to change the Pampers and feed the baby and do this that and the other. [Denise] And that's what makes me think of having another baby. But for her sake like that. So she won't be lonely coming up. [Denise] But I'm, like I said, I'm scared to. [Denise] I'm scared to. [Denise] Show the baby. [Denise] Show the baby! [Denise] Peek-a-boo! It's me. You know, I have my reasons, you know, I get, [Renee] You have a fear. [Denise] I don't know. I have a fear, right? It's a fear because I had a lot of trouble, [Denise] giving birth, right? And, [Denise] it's depressing. [Denise] So, you know, I don't know if I'm ready for that again yet. Not anytime soon. [Renee] You wouldn't consider adopting? [Denise] No. [Renee] No? [Denise] Because I want mine. I want my own. [Renee] But you don't wanna go through that, the same trouble you had before. [Denise talking over Renee] But if I'm going to, that's what I would do. [Denise] Oh yeah, that's what it felt like. [Denise] But if I was, if I thought that seriously about wanting a, a you know, a brother or sister for Jan, [Denise] It would be mine. [Denise] It would be mine. [Renee] Yeah. [Denise] And when we talked about before artificial insemination, you remember that? [Renee] Yeah. [Denise] I didn't want that either. [Renee] Why not? Oh, well. [Denise talking over Renee] In my mind, I don't know what that baby's gonna look like. [Renee] Yes, you would. [Denise] No. [Renee] In some places they have, I mean, you don't know who the male is. [Renee] Some places, you can pick it out. And say, you go see somebody like, like, like heavier, right? [Renee] All right. [Denise] Okay. [Renee] So you say he's heavy. You don't have to go through no act. [Renee] They just take the sperm. But at least, you know he's heavy. [Denise] That's true, but, still, I don't know, it doesn't seem real sometimes. [Renee] Oh, it's real. [Renee] You be careful now, hear. [Renee] You got it? Where we gonna put it out on the window, huh? Where we gonna put it out? [Renee] Oh, you've strewn it all over the place. [Denise] I would like to go to church now. [Denise] I don't go to church now and I would like to go to church and bring Jan up in church. [Denise] Like I says, when she gets old enough to tell me that's not what she wants to do, then if she don't want to go to church, she don't have to go to church. [Denise] But for now, I can at least bring her up and show her that, you know, show her what it's all about. There's two sides to everything. [Denise] Right, but um, [Airplane noise in background through next several lines of dialogue.] [Denise] I tell Renee, it's like I have to make a choice between her and God. [Denise] Because to God, our relationship is sinning. Denise] And I would be a hypocrite if I was to go to church every day and say I'm really into it, [Denise] and then come home to Renee and we make love that night. You know, that's two women, it wasn't made to be like that, so they say. [Denise] So it's like I had to make a choice between Renee and God. And I don't want to consider it, [Denise] that I pick Renee over God. [Denise] Right? [Denise] But it's like I said, it's a complicated and very hard decision to make. To have to choose between someone you love, [Denise] and then, ah, the Lord. You know, that's hard. [Renee] Come on, get some more, quick, quick. [Renee] Oooh. [Jan hollers] [Spanking noise ?] [Jan hollers]