In the Life: Isis King and Janet Mock on media portrayals of trans people

[Show announcer] In 2008, Isis King was the first transgender woman to appear on America's Next Top Model. Breaking ground not only in the fashion and modeling industries, but on TV screens across America. [Isis King] I was born physically male, but mentally, everything else I was born female. [Announcer] in her work as a model, fashion designer, and actress, she's been changing perceptions and breaking down barriers. Janet Mock is a trans advocate and staff editor for People.com. [Janet Mock] ...to speak up, to live visibly, because being silent would be a disservice. Not only to me, but to the women who came before me, and the ones who's voices have been silenced by intolerance and hate. Janet shared her story of transitioning as a teenager, in Marie Claire magazine. She chose to live visibly as a transgender woman to challenge people's perceptions and serve as a positive role model for other transgender people. Isis and and Janet came to, In The Life, to discuss media portrayals of transgender people. And how their lives and work contribute to changing public perception. [Isis] So your life has changed a lot in the past year. How does it feel to now be considered a transgender role model? [Mock] It's a role that I'm growing more and more comfortable. And too, how you grow into your womanhood, or your adulthood. You kind of grow into the role of role model taking on all of that responsibility, people need someone to look up to. That's why I stepped forward with my story in Marie Claire. There seems to be a gap in terms of media coverage of transgender women specifically. We actually have lives that need to be covered in civil rights that need to be obtained and fought for. I have to ask you the same question. The power of TV. Everyone's watching top model, and not only trans-women, but your a role model to women. How does that feel for you? [King] It hit me the first time, right after Top Model. I went to a restaurant. This lady came up with this little girl, who was maybe 5-years old, and said she loved me. I didn't realize that I would impact young kids I never would have thought a parent would let their child come up to a transgender woman. It really was touching, because I didn't grow up and see people that transitioned. Unless they were on Maurie, or the Jerry Springer show. The next generation will see that you can follow your dreams. We bring... me... you... we bring the normality of the situation where regular people following our dreams, pursuing our careers. [Mock] So we all understand the power of TV, and the fact that you are on TV, and your reach there. What about the other depictions of trans-women on TV? [King] We haven't jumped over the hurdle of positive imagery of transgender women on TV. There's me. There's Laverne. I can't really think of anybody else. And now when I do think about it, I so want again to go back to Jerry Springer, and... Maurie. [Mock] Those shows equally have, if not more reach than America's Next Top Model. It's just like a new updated version of the freak show. No one talks about these women's lives, beyond the fact, 'are they a man or a woman'? [King] We really need to get over, the fact that this is how I was born. I went on the Howard Stern Show. And he said the word tranny a couple of times. And I had to say, "Howard, it's trans." I said, "Howard, it's transgender." So for the rest of the interview, he said, "transgender". And I said, "Howard, you really learn." He said, "I'm open to learning." And just even that incentive on his show is teaching him something. We live in a world where kids grow up, and are educated by tv. The more we stand up and say, this isn't right, the more they'll learn. But if we just allow it to happen, and just take it... Then we're not getting anywhere. [Mock] You have to use your life as a teaching moment, and a learning moment. I go to these panels, and many people say, 'Well, you were born a man'. Or, 'What do you think when people look at your adam's apple?' Or all of these things that... ha-ha, when they're kind of reading you a little bit. [King] Mm-hm. [Mock] They're curious. Curiosity is the first step to wanting to understand someone. Your role is to bring it back to, what this is, kindly correct them and say, "It's not okay to say that I was born a man. Or that, I am a man, or that my boyfriend is gay. Or all these things. But I'm happy that you asked me that question. This is the way that it should be. I just love that you used that moment with Howard Stern to kind of turn it into a teaching moment. [King] Even if you have to turn around and, 'whew!' [each interjecting] That moment... / Take a breather... ...when you turn around and say, 'Mm!' [King] You know, but, keep it to yourself. [Mock] Exactly. [King] It comes with the territory of being a role model. [Mock] So you just mentioned using the word, 'tranny'. What does it mean to you when you hear that word? And when it's used especially within the LGBTQ community, as well. I always say to me, it's like the 'N' word. And people say, "Well, it doesn't mean the same..." And I say, "Well, I'm a black woman, and I'm transgender, so I'm telling you, when somebody says it, It has the same effect on me." I know recently, it became a big... a big thing, and RuPaul talked about it, and said how the word isn't that serious. But I am a transgender female, and I'm telling the world that it is as serious. It's not appropriate, and there are plenty of other ways to make a joke about whatever. That they use a word that hurts a group of people. [Mock] When you have a platform, like RuPaul has a platform, it's irresponsible. Especially when you're not a trans-woman walking through the streets everyday. RuPaul gets to go home, and he can just be RuPaul and walk through the streets as a gay black man. But, when you are a trans-woman, and the world is saying you are a man, over and over and over, is what leads to trans-women hurting themselves in a way that they feel that they don't deserve more. They don't deserve to be on something better than Maurie or Jerry Springer. Or to tell their stories in a positive light. These words and images, they matter, and people need to be more responsible. [King] I even try to stay away from transexuals, because I still have my own little things with the word. [Mock] What is that? I want to actually explore that. [King] Ha-ha... I just... kind of like the whole 'tranny' thing... I feel like when somebody says 'transexual' there's so much negativity to come with it. So I just prefer, transgender. [Mock] Ya, of course you have the right to self-identify how you choose to self-identify. I think that 'transexual' almost to me, makes it only about the body, and the transition. Whereas transgender, I feel, speaks more to the entire essence of what, politically, what our bodies say. So after Top Model, I went and did all these interviews. People are still asking all the same Trans 101 questions. 'What was your name?' How old were you when you felt like you were different? All of these questions where it's just like, "Ok, when are we going to move past this." [Mock] I get very angry when I see depictions of 'Trans 101' through mainstream media. Especially when I saw the Don Lemon interview, which you were on the panel... [King] Ha-ha, yes. ...and it was supposed to be about 'transgender people in Hollywood'. [Don Lemon] What has been the most difficult part of a transition, for you? [Chaz Bono] You know, I thought we were here to talk about trans people in Hollywood. We've got three unbelievably beautiful, talented women up there, and we're talking about Transgender 101 here. [Mock] It was Laverne Cox, Isis King, Harmony Santana, three transgender women of color, and Chaz Bono coming in as well. I want to here. What was that experience like? Instead it was Don Lemon asking him about every little thing that he'd been so open about already. You know, "What is it like to have a beard?" [King] What is it like to shave? Don Lemon, what -is- it like to have a beard? You know. Why are you asking Chaz Bono what it's like to have a beard. Or hey, 'is that fun to have some peach fuzz?' And, 'is it fun to shave?' I'm like really, you're a CNN interviewer, and that's what you're choosing to ask one of the most prominent transgender activists and advocates already living so bravely and visibly. And then you have three women sitting there, quiet. Just sitting there quiet, no questions are asked about... Laverne Cox, what is it like to produce television as a transgender woman? How are you changing images? Isis King, what was it like to transition in front of the media? And to now have this huge platform where you're becoming an actress and a designer. And there's just like so many things about our lives that are so much more than just our bodies than this physical transition that we go through. What is your goal when you kind of go from Isis the celebrity, to Isis the... activist, advocate... or, do you see yourself that way? What are your hopes with these projects that you're doing? [King] My hope is that I will be... someone that people can look to as hope for the next generation, for the future. By just being positive, and being strong, and standing up for what you know is right. [Mock] It feels as if, finally things are kind of rolling over and changing to show a very diverse portrait of our entire community of LGBT people. That we're everywhere, and we're part of everyone's homes, and lives and societies. [King] You know, I'm really happy that the world can see two women sit down and talk about issues that matter a lot to us. I think that's really powerful. [Mock] I feel so privileged to be here, and share this space with you. It is something that's rarely done. It's an honor for both of us, to be here, and to be able to talk about these issues. [King] Give me your love, as Tyra would say. [Mock] I know this is what Tyra would do. "You're dismissed." (shared laughter)