In the Life 25th Anniversary Panel

the very first public station to ever show in the life was a very small station called chaos EE in Los Angeles on June 9th 1992 so 25 years a few days ago they weren't really we we had hoped that it would not be premiered ahead of the New York station WNYC but they snuck it in because Los Angeles Gay Pride was at that time and in an interview for the Los Angeles Times John you said to the LA Times quote our show will be fascinating interesting and provocative but not controversial unless you happen to think gay and lesbian subject matter is controversial in itself and if that's the case there's nothing we can do about it so that's exactly that is vintage John but how did you get the idea for this some for this for this series I think the idea goes back a number of years before it actually aired in 1992 well yeah I have been working in and out of with PBS with before Stonewall the whole concept was that when we first started with before Stonewall it was like a one-off and I and it really it seemed to me that what they would say to their audience oh we're just doing this once and it didn't seem like there was a commitment to follow through right on these kinds of issues and I thought well what would happen if we did a series then they would have to say and it became a political thing they would have to say well I guess it's on next month again and it's on the month after and yes we are committed to doing a program and I thought wouldn't that be cool and so the idea was just you know we I got a few people together but I actually we were in the kitchen over here right down the road on Gansevoort Street in my kitchen and that was our first office and we figured we'd take a year to sort of raise the money enough to try to do a show and it really was like the kids get together and put on a show in the barn you know that sort of concept and and so I convinced anyone who I could find to come and help and of course Charles was a very important very important in that and and so we just kind of launched it and luckily as as as you saw they started attacking us right away and with that came a lot of a lot of people all over the country started hearing about this series because we were attacked nationally and that became our membership hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of people became members of in the life and how we got on all those stations because we would build our own networks was basically people would call up give money and then call up and say why can't I get in the life here on the TV show on my TV and that's how we built the network - something like close to 300 stations in a very short period of time so that was sort of the beginning of it but actually started in the kitchen right down the street here at Gansevoort and how did you come up with the name in the life why not here come the homos or something - well you know I put a series together for 1980 called different drummers and the corporation public broadcasting was about ready to put like 2 million dollars into it and it was gonna be this huge big series on gay life on PBS and Ronald Reagan got elected that year to president and they for president and they all got like cold feet and so I just and they said no and so I just put this thing away and then the gay revolution happened there was a revolution in America after the AIDS crisis and then the 90s came I felt that there were enough people who could financially support our project individuals people all over the country would start giving us money and I figured that might be enough and so I dusted off the different drummers went into there was a station here called WNYC or yeah it was the other station channel 13 was too scared you know I went to them and they kinda like no and so I I went over there and the and the guy was nice and he had just did that Paris's burning thing and he was into and he said sure I don't have any money I said well I'll go out and raise the money myself but would you least put us up and that was the beginning he said yeah and then he said but you know that title different drummers is really not not very good I said I know and I was just thinking and then I remembered this great line from a woman in sage here at the sage thing I've forgotten her name I'm getting a little older but an african-american woman who in our in our in before Stonewall she's I asked we asked her well were you were you gay or you know the the women of Harlem and she said oh honey we were all in the life and then I started researching well in the life was the term that was used in in the Harlem Renaissance to sort of capture all the folks who were sort of in the life who were gay and so I thought that was and he thought it was a much better title and that's where it began it was from a little line Mabel Hampton does anybody remember Mabel Hampton yes and so she said in the life and so that's where it started sorry about that Mabel was such a wonderful person so from the from the time you really started organized till broadcast was only about a year that's actually quite quick consider was a year a good solid year when you say Joe yeah Mackey Alston and few of us were over it what did you come that's my question how did you come to a Charles and Bob in your kitchen I remember your kitchen yeah I remember stuffing envelopes in your kitchen John it was about a year stuffing envelopes and trying to get people and interested yeah it was a great was a very exciting time I think I just remember the energy of the volunteers that you incredible Bob how did you come to the pilot I'm going to say that John asked me and what I've never found out is how he and why he asked me but I do remember that when he asked me I no hesitation at all I said I would love to do this I had only come out recently from and once I came out I said I would never go back in and this to me was a great chance to let other people know that we have us out there in all these towns and everything else and John laid it out for me and then he explained what he wanted to do with the show and I thought that would be really be wonderful I didn't realize that in the pilot show we were going to have seven shows in one but it it worked out because he then brought in Kate and and I I will never forget it was her first real television experience as a host and she was scared to death and because we were we're and oh my god I laughter light I mean there was no exception that what Kate said people were married divorced and married again while they were waiting to go on did you shoot the whole pilot in one day yes okay we had to and the audience was so wonderful to stay and how did you decide we're all three of you involved in deciding what went on that show the makeup of the show as far as finding the the it was a collaborative effort yeah me and John and I and my co-producer Pam Jennings who I think lives now in North Carolina and couldn't be here you know that was a time in the early 90s when things were bubbling up there was all these new gay magazines and gay organizations and gay performances downtown and so I was already excited to be in New York and going to all these things so I remember talking to you John and say how about this performer and how about there was a gay revolution going on and it was a Cultural Revolution it was an amazing exciting period to bring that to the the early nineties and the idea was gosh you know my theory was doesn't America want to see all this great stuff that's going on I would think they would and that's how we went about it very positively and we just knew that people would love it that they would love what LGBT people in those days I don't know if we called him that but they would love what was going on all over America there is just wonderful things were going on and so we just started that was the spirit that we came with which was you're gonna love this you're just gonna really I mean there's so many wonderful things it was it was the reason these two talking to me got me more excited about doing the show and if you think about the fact that we had the Gay Men's Chorus all of them at the beginning of the show in the green room in a green room and then lavender light at the end of the show and in between multiple acts well it all had to be lit it had to be lit differently the we even had a talk show segment like yes in the middle with Todd Haynes it was it was a major production pilot and and without any real rehearsal I spent hours going around to work with the group so I could tell my camera crew which had no rehearsal time this is how I want a shot so that we can do this on the lighting director and I remember looking at John when he asked me and I said you know camera men I don't want to do a show I don't want to have a crew that isn't if not gay at least they had to be gay friendly or I didn't want to work with them because I wanted that feeling to go back and forth between the crew because if they're not happy they're not going to shoot it as well and I knew that and and John said no problem and we actually talked to people and I'm gonna tell the one story about a cameraman I had worked with for 15 years and I said to him what why would you want to do this show and we explained I explained that it was about gay and lesbians culture and life and that he goes well why do you want to do it and I said well because I'm gay he's a semi but we pulled together a crew of people that I mean as I say you know you never know my gaydar just didn't work ever but it we pulled a crew together that cared and were there for us and that all made it so much easier for me to thoroughly enjoy spending the time working on the shows and with these two they're pushing me it was it was I had a ball a pilot episode you'd think it would Telegraph what's going to come next but I'm not sure that that necessarily happened in the case of in the life so I just want to move on to the shows that followed in the first season and then that really segwayed into what became the the news magazine in the studio now Kathryn did you know much you knew what in the life was or heard of it before you auditioned to be on it no no I didn't know that right I was what was your training they got you 30 an on-air host on a national TV show I had no training whatsoever no one should have hired me no I I was I had no hitter and I picked up a backstage for the first time ever I was like I really should audition for things and there was a tiny advertisement gay news magazine looking for correspondence I was like gay news magazine what did you think it was print well no it's a TV it said TV but it was a TV ad and so I I sent you guys a like like a small picture of myself waitressing I don't even know how I got called in I remember that you remember yeah I was I was like this is the only picture I didn't have an eight-by-ten so I was like here's a picture of me waitressing and I auditioned and they they famously know I I called it in the lice the lie said in the lice and I was like if you have lice you might need some shampoo and they you guys still hired me even after I called it in the lice you know you hope you were so personable you know I want to be your friend a neighbor on that audition so mr. lesbian mr. Rogers it's a beautiful day in the gay neighborhood that sort of was our style it was just a whole bunch of nice people Jon Jon used to Jon and I used to always argue about make your makeup and earrings you saw in the first one they had they had a drag queen make me up so I looked like a drag queen and my friends were like what like my lips were three times the size and I was like you don't like my lips clearly and but Jon be like can't you wear something sparkly just a little sparkly in your ear just can't you and I was I can't you [Laughter] projecting it was we had so many arguments about my earrings sent the crew out to buy clothes for a day but the tags sister did that yeah I always I always had like labels glued to my like taped my back it was like trying to do stand-ups like cardboard don't don't sweat cuz we never turn those tomorrow but the stores maybe weren't watching the show because the next day everybody would bring their clothes back and that's how we that's how you do low-budget television production realize I mean the the drag queen makeup sort of stay were probably volunteering totally problems with some of them yeah Bob did you do um you didn't do the country episode did you you did what did you do after that after the first episode did several my several episodes I did not do the country one but that same time we shot another show that I loved and that that was the where we had the entire cast of falsettos oh yes another like variety show like performances it was Variety Performance and and we had the cast of fall said it was on and I tried we tried to sort of put the story together and their producers gave us a very strict rule that we couldn't make it look like the show and so we had to redo and rethink a lot it from that standpoint because I I wanted to stage it I mean you you got to you got a guy in bed dying and the nurse is there or the doctor is there and the boyfriend is there and you want it to look nice and give it a feeling and what are you going to do that's not sort of similar of what they did on stage and we had to make sure because they said if they they would not let us air it if it looked like the stage production do you remember the challenge of the march on Washington episode were you in DC for that with the hope I always say I went to the march on Washington but I never saw it I was in the control room the entire time but Chuck all I remember is the struggles Chuck had just to get us to do be able to do it and then get a little air time for it we had run out of money right yes we had we had totally run out of money after that first season right oh yeah it's the reason why we actually have 206 thank goodness was shot here in the center remember that's right with you in bed with Sarah so Jerry dancing bad at Tron and we had no money so we did a clip show so we could save what little money we had so we could do the March she did a best-of in the life in the 6th episode basically and they all loved it I mean that that was the best that was a pretty funny show but it allowed us to have to save a little money in to fundraise a little bit so we could get we could get that March March yeah and the March show was it was really very ambitious because not only did we shoot live the performers going on but we had crews going out at the different areas to pick up the reactions of the people the marchers that were there so that it really became we could insert these things these little clips in to to the live acts it was sort of a challenge without having any money basically to do but we had a ball doing it and as I say I loved I have these wonderful memories of my video tape gal saying ha ha ha ha we we know what that particular Cameron's favorite people are and I go what do you mean he goes only leather and I go okay fine we would just go on but it was it was a challenge to do and and I had a ball doing it and then did Charles did the the studio shows come right after that the next season did you start with Katherine and the those auditions are right after all of that yeah yes Katherine do you remember I mean so you didn't bring any experience who are you quite nervous when you went into these first round and did you even understand the the reach of the show as far as know I know we talked about that earlier yeah I mean I was nervous and I you know obviously we it was like everything we were figuring everything out I was figuring out how to do it we were figuring out how to do it it was in this studio and there was this black cat that would walk by it was all matted around you know you'd finally get it I'd finally nail stand-up in a minute right you know the cat would go and we had a lot of dropouts on the tape in the Edit room because there was so much cat hair and all the equipment I do remember that yeah no I know no it was it was so yes I was nervous and I and I was saying to you earlier John that I didn't realize it until I asked about ratings and I didn't know what ratings meant in terms of people and once they said oh we got a 1 rating or something in Philadelphia and that translated to you know 400,000 people or something then I started it started to add up like we're in one night in one broadcast were we're reaching so many more people than I could have imagined and each time we added another station you know then I started doing broadcast liaison for a while and calling all the program directors and you'd you know it was just watching this grow exponentially so quickly was um it was it was remarkable and did you get as you were recognized how was what kind of responses were people giving you like on the street to people on us started to recognize you yeah yeah I mean doing doing stand-ups or you mean it just just afterwards like out in the out in the community and what were people saying people people were amazing and and you know it was a time where you know I'd be on a flight and the steward would be you know I'd like had some extra peanuts and and people would whisper and a better bank line it was like you're welcome for what you know and and so you know but it was yes I got a lot of great responses and then I you know I was telling John earlier I also got spit on doing doing stand-ups you know so it to pay them because it was out loud and you'd be saying something and you know it wasn't so popular necessarily in the 90s and nineties to be talking about being gay you know all the stand-up so we did so for the most part it was amazing how people would come up and say you know young people would say I'm able to watch it because it's on PBS and I told my mom I'm going up to watch PBS you know so like wink wink was like fantasticks and crying and and it meant I mean it was the this was this was it you know this was what was on this was no there wasn't much else that anyone could could actually turn on the television set parents straight people were coming up I didn't know I didn't understand you know about my gay child so so really the I had had a wonderful privilege of being able to hear the the the commentary wherever I walked and that was amazing but there was some scary moments we sent Catherine to the first March in Montana remember that yeah in Helena Montana Janet boss who just walked in the room Janet was a producer we went to Helena Montana was their first gay pride parade and um and Kaye Clinton was there and she's like you know if they weren't so drunk they'd be pretty these guys were they were protesting with their you know queer you know steers not queers and I started interviewing them and they they you know just were like this is you know just going on about how illegal we were because it was illegal the sodomy law was there and you know just going off then one then he this guy finally he said he said he's like you're disgusting what do you think is right about being a lesbian and he's very good he's like whoa how do you know she's a lesbian because I can tell she's a lesbian I was like woo right Bo I am and I was like in queer is spelled with you and I was like we're done with this interview and they just started to yell and and they they got increasingly violent as the day went on and I had to do the stand-up and the whole and I was like okay this is this ported Oh camera crew was all like locked down and I said well Janet remembers this I said we have to get in front of the March once the March starts we just have to you know get in front and we'll do the stand-up they started marching and the people were so scared they were like stop the violence stop the hate stop the violence they started running so I had to run ahead and do just one take of a intro and then that night rocks were thrown and they kept you know yelling death threats and you know it was just there was so many times I traveled we travel the country and just heard so many stories this was a case where I just thought these people are so brave they are so brave because there are cameras here and they're all going home I'm flying back to New York you know so it was really good it was very moving I always said to the people on camera the guests were really the heroes of that show because you know there was a policy I think there's only one story in all the years Jack make it say where we always people always had to be on camera and be identified I think there was only one story on Peter was about being the only story I didn't identify entrapment - okay but yeah that was important for me to make sure that anyone who appeared on the show we would have their name on the screen as well as what they did and so a lot of people wouldn't come on in the life at the beginning because they didn't want to to do that but you know I really wanted to make that a policy so for the most part you're right over the 20 years and in those early years I mean most television looks at our life was sensationalized you know kind of scandalous and so and we had to really gain people's trust in the beginning and they had to know that we weren't going to mess with their story and so and we it took a short while to gain that trust but then people people did I just wanted to mention speaking of people being on the show I think there's a couple people here who were the face of in the life along with you Katherine Allan Toulon is here stand up Allen he was the voice of in the life he did all of the funding credits and Chris Ann Eastwood is here from Los Angeles Chris Ann was our Andy Rooney with Katherine and as his um is Greg here Greg stand up Greg Greg hello Greg Greg Watt Greg and I had the cat we shared the cat moments oh that's amazing that's amazing do you have any uh any most memorable stories you worked on a produced Katherine or just something as I know you did so many fantastic stories for the show is the one that really stands out for you working on it putting together oh my god they're so there's so many I mean we were I think the most emotional was a kid who had shot himself Robbie Kirkland that was you know and his mother picked me up at the airport and I hired a local crew and went to winter I went to her house and she said do you want to see Robbie's room it's gonna make me cry now even now and she had not made his bed and he had shot himself six months before and on the on the floor were his letters his writing his diary writings about being gay and how he didn't think you'd be accepted and she had finally found they were there they belonged to a conservative Church she had just changed churches and she was bringing him to his first accepting Church and had found a group for him but he shot himself to Saturday like two days before she got him there and she became an activist and I think you know it I I cannot stress enough you know and we were talking about you know the bravery I mean I did a story on gay employees of Chrysler you know and I remember they they had a whole gay employee group and I said we're gonna be bringing cameras tomorrow who wants to be on-camera and basically everybody got up and left and I was like it wasn't something I said you know in a few state and and and the the people who again who appeared on on-camera and told their stories you know I remember Jane you submitted a story about a gay couple that one foster parents of the year in this tiny Harriet pretty stuck with me who's here Harriet Hirschorn and it was like a one stoplight town and you know they had like they'd had like ten foster kids and these straight foster kids you know had nominated their dads and they won in the state of Iowa foster parents of the year you know these are stories that it's just were at the time and you know we had Kate Bornstein as a correspondent in 1995 you know we were doing stories we were doing transgender stories we were doing gay youth stories military story you know whatever we could do and also really critiquing our own community I mean that was part of really looking at the complexity within our community whether it was you know racial diversity and these complicated discussions you know and always as John said coming from the premise being gay is okay we're not that is no that's not what we're debating here we're gonna talk about all the different the complexities of our community and yes who's attacking us but really who we are as a community you know and all of our again complexity yeah I can't stress enough that back then whenever you had a gay person on television or in the news the the station would always have an opposing view you know the conservative voice about why it was bad to be gay or evil or sinful and our show was really the first to have gay people on that was a given that we're not going to talk about that gay people are American their fellow Americans and contribute to society and hear their stories that a revolutionary yeah it was important to get over that debate the idea that fair and balanced I guess the concept was that no longer would we accept that concept anymore that we were past that debate that we weren't we were into other issues and we were into the energy and the excitement of the changes that were taking place within the community and we just didn't you know I thought that was pretty brave of us to do that but to be honest with you we got a lot of support from the programming stations throughout the country overtime you know that was the big thing that you know originally we're trying to do is that it's not only political in terms of what we are doing but it would be continued to be political for program directors and for people who were watching television and their public television stations to support is programmed to continue because that was an important you know a lot of brave program directors who were a little bit afraid of losing their jobs and funding and men and some did they got a lot of pushback thing out of their local viewers they just went just quickly one of one of my you know we all wore a million hats right so one of mine was literally calling and saying are you gonna arrest this month and at what time and how's it doing you know how did and they would they would say that you know this is the days when people would fax you know it's like an you have to be pissed off to fax why you got to tie it baby got to print it you got to bring to the fax got to put the number in you know and it first people would you know they would program directors would come in on a Monday morning and they'd be like these faxes like why are you airing this gay stuff at the very beginning then they started getting faxes with no names on them but saying thank you for airing this and then they said we start we're now we're getting faxes with people's names on it saying I'm a member you know and thank you for airing this and it's like this this idea of these growing faxes of support the days you know they'll be like a pile of faxes you know that was and it was Brit it was brave of them because they were they would really get heat but from both sides which was the wonderful thing because I used to love you know somebody call and complain you know I gave money and they won't put it on so just know send him a nice postcard and I remember one time the program director of Maryland called me up and said stop please stop stop I don't want to see another postcard I just got a million postcards this year we're gonna put you on please stop and they thought we were organizing it we really we really just we didn't organize it in that level we just said it's on and ask your local station if if they're running it we didn't say you know go out there and protest or anything and so that was it was a great building tool was to have these members all over the country who began again this slow relationship with program directors in small stations around the country I mean my favorite station that we were on was the North Dakota we were on North Dakota when was the presentations I know that was so cool my favorite was when they'd say we don't have any gay people here I'd go to a PBS commit sounds like really know I can remember when we first started out I had said to John did you know that the TV station where I graduated from college in Seattle I I know people there I think I can get us to get on the station and I go out there and the program director not sent a tape to them and the program director who had gone to school with said we you know your production quality isn't up to our standards and I go and what was wrong with the production quality and she well you know it's I said you are upset because there are gay people here on this show do you oh no no no it's just you you know you you don't do things as well well I had happened to see a show that they had produced the night before that was a piece of and I looked and I said now and I compared our show to your show she's what's wrong he said let's sit down you got the tapes let's sit down and look at them and I said miscues here your lights aren't on here you can't hear these people I said we don't have that on ours and she said well I'll have to think about it and she was scared it was just their fear it was a fear of putting gay people on through a friend of mine he had contacts with the two gay newspapers in Seattle at the time so I got an interview and as you said it became something out of I did the interview in the paper all of a sudden people were riding into KCTS we want the show we want us they've never seen this show they'd only heard we've seen I've said on the newspaper but it ultimately I think at first aired at two o'clock in the morning which is you know it was safe but through complaints and that it ultimately became a ten o'clock ten o'clock show yeah or even those are the great times I thought was the ten o'clock shows when we got a 10 o'clock show it was like an eclair so we just finished watching clips from the rest of the 20 year history of in the life and I wanted to start with asking the three staff people here Jack David and Dez arena what were some of the the memorable stories that you worked on maybe we'll start with you Dez arena it just um you know watching that that last set of clips it really triggered a memory you know doing the story about lesbian Muslims and I think one of the major the really important things to me about having this platform you know having this opportunity to reach a national audience was to really think about diversity and you know as you saw in those clips like we really showed everyone like you know brown people black people Native Americans I mean I think we talked about diversity now in terms of you know Hollywood or like you know diversity and gender we had it back in the 90s so it was really like an honor and they're really an amazing feat I think and we were all thinking about it back then so like in terms of that issue we were we were good yeah I think that that goes back to John scagliotti and that was his vision that we really reflect the diversity of the community on the show and what about David you wore a lot of hats and community relations and you spoke to a lot of people around the country is one of your job titles to actually talk and show stories to different audiences what was that like or what was some of the stories that that you remember that resonated with people well one of one of the stories was about by Rustin because he was organizer 1963 march on Washington for me being a gay african-american male I didn't see a lot of role models and people in high places or doing a lot of things that I could model myself after and when I got to the show that was in 2000 I was so happy to be there because one of the things I would say was I wish I had this when I was coming out I mean I came out when I was 17 but not really out out I realized that my sexuality then but still had a troubled coming out here it was you know being all the derogatory names called those names so seeing by trust in and then Phil Wilson another person I mean I'm celebrating 30 years being a long-term survivor and so to see someone like that you know Ilyn film talking of openly about his HIV status made me feel empowered as well but one of the benefits of going out and being in community relations and communications was the opportunity to be at the glisten conferences and everyone should I'm not going to assume but it's the gay lesbian straight Education Network also with exhibiting at the gay life Expo going to Philadelphia and presenting for the American Psychological Association and developing a platform for the supporting youth episode which we there was it's supporting youth and then we like well no production actually configured it and put together segments to make a sort of a classroom educational video call and we retitled it about supporting youth their education and survival and I was able to present that basically presenting segments in different conferences or different locations to have people get inspired and to have the discussion started about being gay and lesbian bisexual and transgender so I'll stop there but that was basically a you know my having my pom-pom sincerely thing across the u.s. and yeah yeah yeah I'm really really proud of the work that I got to do it in the life it was such a great legacy to jump jump off you know and do your own thing I mean that legacy that John and Charles and John scagliotti and Catherine Linton built for us really made such a difference by the time I got there which was 2007 and we kind of shifted from a newsmagazine to more of like a gay front line we got very serious and very investigative and there was all these serious issues going on like you know bully sides and marriage equality and you know HIV criminalization laws and trans youth you know so yeah it's I think it's the youth stories that spoke so poignant ly to me I also had a story like Catherine where I went into the room of someone who had committed suicide because they were being bullied for being gay you know and that just that doesn't leave you you know and you kind of informs everything that you make and so when I walked away from in the life I went ahead and I made my documentary free CC with Laverne Cox but that project we started talking about it at in the life it was gonna be a segment on in the life but see in the life was such a great incubator that it allowed me to do to go further and for that I will always be grateful you know it always hardens me to know that people like you Jack and Dez arena going on and and getting careers and Catherine to other people alumni from in the life's production team gone on to win Academy Awards like Roger Ross Williams who produce segments were in the life and Dan cars Lake who did the documentary for the Bible tells me so so it's really great to see that I'm Jack I'm curious though as you mentioned the the kind of hard-hitting stories you did was that because unlike what we were facing in the early part of in the life when there was no no visibility for LGBTQ people by the time you were on board how did that change the kinds of stories you decided to tell well I mean the process I'm sure was different I mean we were scouring the headlines and you know we had gone through various political administrations you know George Bush years and then when we had Obama it was like a party you know in a celebration so there were a lot of uplifting I think every story we wanted to have some amount of hope you know and we really wanted to just you know it was hard to get subjects sometimes but specifically I know katha Catherine you're here she produced a wonderful segment called becoming me which we decided to make a whole half-hour episode on gender non-conforming youth and to get these parents to talk about you know how they are raising their children and listening to their children who are telling them about their gender nonconformity issues and the life that they're leading it was very difficult but once we you know showed up and and and and put you know turn the cameras on and we always listened to people and that's the thing about in the life it was always there and it was always showing up and it was like you know there'd be some demonstration you know and it was because you know we'd have that footage because we were there you know I mean and you know just so many instances were like that and I just like I said I just feel really privileged to be a part of that and it's really informed my own work Jane is someone who volunteered her time and talents for other LGBTQ nonprofits for many many years what was it about in the life that made you want to come on board and be the the co-chair for as many years as you were well it wasn't really by design but I sort of got hooked it was a natural extension of what we had done at lambda and it was really bringing it out to the world even though there was more LGBT presence in the media at that by that point it still was very limited and the reality is we were showing real people leading real lives we didn't shy away from controversy but it was never where we expected it and that was very rewarding and and to this day I still meet people who say this was my lifeline you know I grew up in such in such a place and I didn't know where I would find gay people I remember a young man say who wrote to us once and said last night I was able to watch an entire episode albeit with the clicker in hand listening for a car door to slam his parents and his brothers who he described as having no end of jokes his words were out and he said I know that in a couple of years I'm gonna go to college and I'll be able to meet people like me but for now this is all I have and the most amazing part of this story is is that he came from an area on the outskirts of New York City you know so you could see what you were doing for people and you could see what you were sharing you know we would we would do things that were gutsy and visibly gutsy and we thought we might have pushed back but you'll probably remember one of the most one of the pieces we got the most response on and and not all favorable was you know we had done leather bars and nobody was concerned about that all kinds of political things but we did a piece about two lesbians who were deaf and they were going to be inseminated and have a child and they were trying to have a deaf child and you know we would get this incredible feedback you know everyday was something new and exciting and reaching out to people who still didn't have anything else I remember that yes I want to talk a little bit about how we were able to do some of the kinds of programming we did with very very little money des arena you were part of the episode where we did something called in the life goes global where we went around the world and we actually did some stories from other countries yeah I happened to do the the ups to this segment about the Philippines the Philippine lesbian activism just because I was I was actually going home to visit family so going on vacation somehow that's right Brazil John you were going to Hong Kong with their family and we said hey you're gonna go on vacation can you carry a camcorder we actually not not go on vacation and do some work right the most fun work ever you know I just want to add one thing and that's that was part of what kept me and others that in the life and that is the incredible dedication of staff we were all family you know there there was never a clock out time there was never I can't do that and I think everybody not only loved the work they were doing but saw the impact of it yeah I mean I feel like you know I wouldn't have stayed otherwise because I was barely making rent but like the fact that you were really like impacting people's lives and you I it was impacting my life so so you know so profoundly like I kind of came out in this milieu where it was almost like wow that it's pretty normal to be gay and like you know what I was experiencing personally was happening nationally because of this show so it was like I was coming out as the show was coming out to the to the nation so it was a pretty amazing experience so after 20 years of being on the air from 92 to 2012 in the life got another life so to speak and I want Chris from UCLA to talk a little bit about you know what how is in the life living on back in 2012 you and I love that fashion statement on your head by the way and John came came to us at UCLA and said well we'd like to have the afterlife for this show and could you help us and I guess the reason you came to us is because UCLA film & Television archive had since 2005 began a partnership with Outfest founded at UCLA in 1982 to create the UCLA out Fest Legacy Project which initially was a collection of a couple of thousand tapes of films that had been submitted to out fests some of them had been shown others hadn't that collection has since then grown to 36,000 titles and is now the largest LBGT Moving Image media collection in the world and so we said yes this would be an interesting thing to do and thanks to funding that we received from the Pride Foundation and arc us and Henry fan Ameren we were able in record time I mean really amazing 14 months be able to create a website we are starting to put the uncut interviews as secondary material onto the site and our plan is to really keep expanding this site so and to make sure that in the life really does last much much longer than all of us - and what you're seeing right now on the screen are some screen grabs from the UCLA film and television archive website where every single episode of in the life from its 20 year history can be instantly streamed you can just click any of those links and you can start watching any of the episodes and what's amazing is this this is a resource that you can access anywhere in the world for an internet connection and I have to say I you know I've been at UCLA now as a head as the head of the archive for about ten years and this is really one of my the one of the things I'm most proud of that we did this and that that we were able to do this especially in the time and really I think it is a quite handsome site and it's a lot of fun just to go just just to browse oh you have to wind down and open it up to questions and answers from the audience but before we do that I just want to acknowledge the people who actually worked for in life over the twenty years anyone who's well first michelle crystal q please stand up as executive director the last executive actors are in the live any any board members any any board members in the life please stand up and stay standing yes board members in the life [Applause] staff members and in the life anyone who worked on staff please stand up Thank You volunteers and supporters and freelance producers and editors please stand up so now I'm gonna ask John if you won't help me have people answer questions but before we do that I just want to come back full circle to why we were here to to celebrate the 20th anniversary of the pilot and have Madeline all Nick who was in the audience to give her story about what it was like yes start the Q&A with Natalie yes I was asked to come tell my story so I was in the audience of the pilot episode my I was friends with some actors who had a group called the five lesbian brothers and we did they did theater downtown and it was very you know ghettoize to do lesbian theatre but then there was going to be this television show and catherine was talking about how PBS didn't give you guys any money no one knew that I can tell you and for all the hard work that everyone here did on the on the side of the audience it just seemed like so many things were happening and then this was the next great thing that was happening was this show it was like yes this happened that happened and now we get our TV show and the it was so exciting to be in the audience I remember that when you we were the in-house audience but you ran the credits the opening credits for the audience and when the words it's lesbian it's gay appeared people cheered because it was shocking to see that those words written and that it was going to be on television and it was like an opening credits like that was so exciting but anyway so the reason why John and Charles wanted me to come tell this story was because well when a before we were singing outside waiting to go in the audience um they had us all sign release forms and I did think a little bit oh you know I'm I wasn't out to my parents my mom knew I was in act up but I they were there my mom was very conservative and so I wasn't out to her and so the show was taped that the audience again was like really really riled up and and loved the show and I remember the lavender light Gospel Choir ending it and it just feeling like it was sitting in the audience we felt like we were experiencing a hallucination because we just couldn't even believe that there was a television show now it was it was so incredible and again like everyone who worked so hard it just was so legitimizing and it just felt just I can't and say like how special it felt but anyway so then the the way the New York broadcast happened was before it was gonna be on PBS it was going to be on another cable channel like 21 was the broadcast before the PBS so so lisa lisa krone who people now know as the double tony a winner for writing fun home she was one of the lesbian brothers and that's a great musical everyone says he and anyway so we went over to their house to watch this premiere episode and at one point during the episode they cut away from whatever performance was going on just a close-up of my big head just my head filling the screen it was a big audience like I cuz when I said it was like anyway so then my dad called me and and my mom had been watching not even the PBS broadcast but the advanced broadcast anyway so there's a long story at Paul is that not worth sharing but but anyway so it was it was that was just great and the show and and then I remember also although I know I wasn't asked to men talk about this I remember also with the lesbian brothers something came up where they were doing the skit or part of a play of theirs where it was a parody of these German these movie about German schoolgirls and yeah made cannon uniform and one of the lesbian brothers playing the sexy teacher who comes in and kisses everyone goodnight and then when she goes to you know these chaste kiss on the forehead and all the girls are so in love with her and then when she goes to kiss the last person they just start making out wildly and I remember that brought up some issues am i correct and we had to because it was like within the context of gay theater yes that's hilarious with the premiere episode of the first gay and lesbian TV show this teacher you know this woman making out with a student you know not so that was interesting because that maybe hadn't been thought through beforehand and I think I remember that there was a cut to like someone I they would just didn't show the kiss they were just heard maybe something or people looking around I don't know but um that I remember the helm in the archives from the b-roll so that's an interesting thing of that whole thing of outside of yes anyway so that's why I I thanks for telling me to come tell this story it's very strange but thank you thank you so John you want for future historians and documentarians it is now cataloged and that is probably the most important aspect of UCLA having this footage so all of you race to UCLA and find that kiss as I know you're all dying yes a TV series like in the life start asking for checks fundraising it's all about money yes I mean there's certainly room for a program like in the life or gay television series and that's happening in some ways as people have their little mini web no it's not the same way not that I know of I think we have to start in the life up again you can't sounds like maybe this is a no do you think it's a function of the times you know that I mean in the life was on when we had nothing at all and then it went from you know the variety to to news and going around and then and then it got really big I mean the production value isn't everything it was fabulous and then one day I got a phone call saying can you take pictures at our Dubai party you know like so you know I mean do you think it could survive you know there could be an in the life again or was it just because we weren't on TV at all you know I mean I don't think shows like Will and Grace or Eleanor I mean it's just not the same thing and that was kind of you know the talk and the excuse like well you know it's people don't want you now because we're all over the place what not in the same way I don't think but what do you think there's no question about that and and I agree a lot of what's out there isn't what we did but there were a variety of factors one of which was money certainly you know as we have more and more organizations within our communities competing for the same dollars as people's attention spans got smaller and as things and when we during the time that we made this decision you know people were doing more and more online and it wasn't that we couldn't have done that but it's a very different beast and part of it is the times yeah and I just want to say 20-year run for any television show that's quite amazing right I don't know of any other [Applause] yes mark Wow Jack were you there it kind of happened after I was I left Oh Jane you were there with we actually gave Harvey a forum at the end of the show he was sort of our Andy Rooney for those of you that are old enough to read my brandy Rooney and he had pretty much creative freedom to talk about issues and and in his own inimitable way and that worked for a while there's no actually there's nothing like that that exists now why they're not just for him but for others no and I highly recommend going to the website typing in the search field Harvey Fierstein and you can watch all of those great commentaries that he did for in the life they were called outtakes