Get Used to It: Ep. 113, "Youth Issues"

(typewriter keys typing) (loud typewriter keys typing) ('80s dance music) - Hi, welcome to "Get Used to It". I'm Sheila Kuehl, your hostess or guide through all of these fabulous topics. And as you know, "Get Used to It" is a show about issues of interest to and about the LGBT community. And we have a great show for you today. It's been quite a while since we talked about issues having to do with our youth, our young people. So today, I have three guests to talk about kind of what has been happening for young people in our community. First, I have Jorge Valencia who's the Executive Director of The Trevor Project which is the only nationwide suicide helpline for gay and lesbian teens. Welcome, Jorge. - Thank you. - Carolyn Laub, who's Executive Director of the Gay-Straight Alliance Network. Welcome. - Thank you, Sheila. - And Vanessa Coe who is now a junior college student but has been active as a high school student, a student activist and leader around LGBT issues of discrimination in schools. Welcome, Vanessa. - Thank you. - Jorge, I'm gonna start with you. A while ago, we did a show about teen suicide. And we looked at a number of startling statistics about our kids in the LGBT community and what a high percentage of teen suicides they were. Can you tell us if that's still the case and kind of what's going on in this area now? - Sadly, it continues to be very high. When you look at suicide in general, among 15 to 24-year-olds in the general population, it's among the top three causes of death among that age group, 15 to 24-year-olds. And then when you consider gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgender teens or questioning teens, they're three to four times more likely to attempt suicide than their heterosexual peers. So it's still pretty high. - [Sheila] So, what does the Trevor Project do? - Well, it's our objective, first and foremost, to get a teen, a caller, past a suicidal point. And so we average about 1200 calls a month from teens all over the United States who feel alone, desperate. They just have nobody to talk to. And our first priority is to make sure to keep them alive. Once we've gotten them past that or feel comfortable that we have, then we refer them to different resource groups in their areas, local resource areas. Many teens, though, are still not comfortable talking to others about what they're going through and 30% of them continue to call us back and we become their life blood. - So I'm sure that over the years that you've worked in this area, you've formed some opinions about kind of what's going on here. Why our kids? Why are our kids even more at risk? Obviously, you can think of six or eight answers, but sort of what does it show? - Well, you know, in general, teens go through a very difficult time to begin with. Your body's changing, you know, emotionally, you know, everything just seems to be that much more elevated. When you consider someone who identifies themselves as gay, lesbian, bisexual, or transgender, at that point, these teens have to overcome a lot of stigma. Most of the time, they're used to society saying that you're not supposed to be that way, that it's a choice, and it creates a lot of self-hatred, a lot of internalization that is not good for them, which then leads them to increased substance abuse, and just some behaviors that are detrimental to them. - Well it must be a sense of isolation. I mean, it's not only LGBT kids that contemplate suicide. But it must be even more of a feeling of isolation. - Absolutely, they start, you know, these teens and one of the things you start realizing when you look at teens within this group, and in general though, but specifically, the group that we're talking about, LGBT teens, is that they start to dissociate themselves and there is an isolation that takes place. And that just leads them to act out in certain behaviors that in the end hurts them. And so it's our job to try to refer them to groups and to organizations that are helpful once we've talked them through their feelings and let them know that they're not alone. It's surprising to me how the teens that call just, you know, all over the United States, in these small towns, that feel they are the only ones that are going through what they're going through. And without having done anything or even experimented or experienced anything, just what they know they are, they're already contemplating suicide because they're afraid of the results of society, schools, families might be. - So I would think that people might imagine oh well, this would happen in a small town because as you say, you know, people would think that they're the only one. So do we find more of a problem in small towns around the country? Not so much in LA, New York, et cetera? - No, sadly, it's all over the United States. I think when we look at our demographics, New York and Los Angeles still, or not Los Angeles, excuse me, California make up the bulk of our calls. But it's like 10 or 15% and all of the rest of that percentage is divvied up between the United States. So it's all over, really. It doesn't matter that the teen's in a large city or a small city, it's all about how they identify and how they're able to talk to someone about what they're going through. - I know that there was a major study a while ago that looked at and sort of revealed this kind of surprising at the time statistic, that of all the people of this age group thinking about or contemplating, or attempting suicide, such a high percentage were LGBT kids. Have the statistics gotten any better though, either the number, sheer number of people? Or has there been another study to show that, you know, we're helping in any way? - You know, that study that you're probably referring to was one that was conducted by the Health and Human Services in 1989. And what that study was, was a compilation of a lot of different studies that had been done. And I haven't seen one, a study that yet has been done specifically about gay and lesbian teens. That's a part of suicide statistics or youth that are considered at risk. But the Center for Disease Control gives out money to the states to conduct studies for at risk youth every two years. And the numbers are still the same among LGBT teens. They're still three times as likely to attempt suicide than their heterosexual peers. - So how does the Trevor Project, how does the call in line work? Do you have, is it peers who are answering the phones? Or volunteers? Do you have a large staff that answers the phones? Tell me a little bit about the project. - Well, it's a toll-free confidential help line and it's open 27/7, 365 days a year. We rely on the kindness of volunteers that have gone through a lot of training, over 64 hours of training, to be able to get on those phones and respond to them. We also have paid clinicians on staff to intervene when necessary. We don't use peer-to-peer counseling right now, although we refer them to many peer-to-peer counseling groups after we've talked to the kids. Some that are looking for that, specifically, that's not our role. Our role is really just to get them through that crisis moment and make sure that they're around. But, you know, we rely on about 100 volunteers that man the lines and we're very, very grateful to them. We could not do it without them. We go in, we train, and we just make sure that they're around to help us keep our teens alive. - What's the training like? - You know, it's not about, and I'm glad you asked that because a lot of people think when a teen calls and they think, "You know, I might be gay," that they might be saying on the other line from our side, "well, great, it's great to be gay," or whatever it may be. We act as counselors which is if a teen says, "I think I might be gay," a counselor would respond, "what makes you think you might be gay?" And we take them through that whole process. If a teen says, "I'm gay," well good for you. We're there to support them in whatever decision or however they feel. And our target audience are the LGBT teens, but 40% of the teens that call consider themselves questioning. They're not ready to identify their sexuality. And so it's important for us to make sure that we're able to talk with them at whatever level and however they're comfortable. - So what can communities do or what can friends do? What can parents do? A lot of times you can see your friend is really depressed or you may not even know the reason at school or, you know, you see them somewhere and you're an adult and, or a parent. What do you encourage people to do when they're worried about somebody? - Well you know, I think that's one of the thing that parents and adults sometimes mistake for a, "Oh, it's a teenager going through growing pains," whatever it may be. But there're definitely some signs that friends, adults, and parents can be aware of, the most drastic being that they start giving away some of their prized possessions. Their behavior starts changing. Typically what they liked before, activities that they appreciated, they start moving away from. An increased substance abuse, alcohol, cigarettes smoking, drugs, any one of those things all could possibly lead an adult or a friend to realize that perhaps they need to look a little closer. And unlike what people think that you shouldn't ask someone, it's best to ask directly. And if they mention suicide, it's important to ask them if they made a plan to commit a suicide. Believe it or not, talking about it is better than not talking about it at all. Sometimes people think, "Well, I don't want to offend them." That's not the case. - Well, Carolyn, we were talking about isolation as one of the issues for young people. I think isolation is a real issue for young people anyway 'cause you always feel like you're the only one of something in the world. But this is pretty serious stuff. Still, the GSA Network has sort of like an anecdote to isolation. Tell us a little about kind of your story, how you got involved, and clearly, what GSA is. - Sure, well it's interesting what Jorge was talking about, the report in 1989. 1989 was the year there was the very first Gay-Straight Alliance Club started in this country. And since then, we've seen really, a dramatic increase in these clubs. And they are an anecdote to the isolation that young people feel. In California, I was working in the early '90s with young people and got to participate as a young person myself, in an event called Creative Lobby Day, which, where we went to Sacramento and lobbied for your bill. - [Sheila] I remember it well. - I'm sure you do. And I do too, it was a really pivotal moment for me in my own life to, as a young person, to be able to be part of a movement where our voices were being heard by decision-makers. And to think that we could actually change laws and therefore change the responsibility and the accountability of our schools to make them safer places for students who are lesbian, gay, bisexual, or transgender, or perceived to be and receiving harassment at school. And that's what Gay-Straight Alliance Clubs are are trying to address, as well. So I was doing that in the early '90s and in mid '90s and then in 1998, I met a young woman who had started a Gay-Straight Alliance Club at her school in Palo Alto. And she'd done that in solidarity with students in Salt Lake City who couldn't have a Gay-Straight Alliance Club, because they had tried to establish one and their school board banned all clubs in order to be able to ban the Gay-Straight Alliance Club. And that was a turning point in the Gay-Straight Alliance movement because it caught the national media attention. And students all over the country found out about Gay-Straight Alliance Club. And so they, okay, they can't have one in Salt Lake City, but we can start one at my school. So that echoed in California and I learned about them and thought this is really powerful. Young people coming together and certainly to provide a support environment, a safe haven at school, a safe place you can go at lunch time and no one's gonna judge you, regardless of your sexual orientation or whether you're questioning. But it's engaging straight allies, as well, to try to do education and activism. So I got really excited and in 1998, started a network of Gay-Straight Alliance Clubs in California. - So the GSAs in California can join this network. And do they interface on stuff? Is there like, conferences, or? - Yeah, we've got a whole variety of programs. We started out first in the San Francisco Bay area in 1998 with about 40 clubs that already existed. And we've now grown to be a statewide organization in California. We've got over 460 clubs which represents over 40% of the public high schools in California. So that means 40% of the high school students in this state can go to school and hear the announcements for the Gay-Straight Alliance Club. And it's just becoming a normal part of what it means to be a teenager and to go to school and there's gay folks and lesbian folks, and bisexual and transgender folks in your school. And that's making a real difference for how people's attitudes are developing. And then what we do as a network is to bring young people together to teach them skills, for, you know, leadership skills and activism skills so that they can learn how to use their Gay-Straight Alliance Club as a vehicle for creating longer term change in their school climate and the institutional policies. - What difference do you think it makes in students' lives to have a GSA on their campus? - You know, I think for a student who's really struggling with their own identity or facing harassment at home or at school, it offers a safe haven and a safe place that they can go and be who they are. And for the straight allies, it's a place where they can express their values and their beliefs about civil liberties and social justice. And I think what it's also doing, in terms of the impact of we've been tracking the young people that we train in our leadership development programs and our activist, we have a summer activist camp. And what we're doing is tracking those young people and they're going on into college and beyond to see themselves as leaders and to see themselves as social change agents. So they're really coming from, they may have come from a place of dis-empowerment and they're really moving to a place of empowerment, believing that they have a voice and a role in our society to change it. - Did it change your life? - Oh, it definitely did. I mean, being able to see that I could make an impact and affect so many other young people is immensely rewarding for me. - Well, you know, it's interesting, a lot of places that think about a problem, create a service. And I mean, like, the Trevor Project is a very, very valuable service. This is really different. I mean, in terms of organizing in order to help yourself, that's really what a GSA does on the campus, and the broader impact on the campus. Do you think that, have you found that there's interest in funding activism the way there's interest in funding programs? - We've seen a lot of support and I think we need more support for organizing in activism with young people. Because I think young people as, you know, the youth in this generation who are seeing LGBT people in the movies and TV, and at their school, and hearing the announcements, and reading newspaper articles, and watching the marriage equality debate that's happening, there's really a generation of young people kind of coming up as activists. And it promises great things. It's already changing things and when those young people become politicians and teachers, and adults and parents, they're really gonna have a different set of values. So I think we'd love to see more funding of the kind of work that we're doing with grassroots organizing. But I think services are also really important because, you know, we're organizing, we can't necessarily deal, you know, we need to be able to refer to the services to help a young person who's been kicked out of their home because they came out and their parents found out that they're gay or bisexual, or a lesbian, or something. So we really still need those kinds of services for young people to exist in our community, as well. - Right, and of course, I wasn't trying to lead you into saying there's any kind of conflict. I think it's a continuum. Have you found that it's affected teachers, as well? - You know, yeah, absolutely. I think we're seeing, generally, we're seeing more teachers feeling comfortable coming out. And it makes a huge difference. There are studies that show, you know, young people feel safer at their school if there's an openly LGBT teacher or administrator at their school. But I think there's also still a lot of teachers that don't necessarily know if their administration is gonna back them up, so they'll stay closeted because they don't know if they have the support of their administration. So we think it's really vitally important that superintendents and principals make clear statements about supporting the existing laws in the states that do have non-discrimination policies. And where there's districts or states that don't have those, that superintendents and principals take a leadership role in this. - I'm thinking about straight teachers, though, as well. Sometimes it's a real risk to be the teacher that's gonna be the one who's the advisor to the GSA on campus because immediately, everybody thinks you must be gay. And so I don't know whether that's more of a threat for a gay teacher in the closet, or for a straight teacher. - [Carolyn] Right. - I do know that teachers do it, but have you had any feedback from teachers about ways in which GSAs have changed their campus? - Mm-hm. You know, we see, we actually often, well, we'll get calls from students that are trying to start a Gay-Straight Alliance Club and they're running into certain obstacles. So one of the obstacles in a politically conservative environment would be finding an advisor, finding a teacher who's willing to stick their neck out and be the advisor. And the student will say, "Well, I know Mr. So-and-so's gay," or, "I know Miss So-and-so's a lesbian. "I just know it, but they're not out." And, you know, "How could I approach them?" I say, actually, find the married heterosexual teacher with kids and ask her or ask him to be the advisor because that person, it might be safer for them, in a conservative environment, to be an ally and then that can help a gay or lesbian teacher along. So what happens is when there are straight teachers that come out about supporting LGBT students and supporting a Gay-Straight Alliance Club, it actually can make it safer for some of their colleagues, as well. - Have you gotten reports about resistance from administrators and principals? - Every day. (Sheila and Carolyn laughing) - I know, my questions often seem to me like, "Did the sun come up this morning?" But, I mean, I think it's important for people to know. - We're actually, right now, a plaintiff in a lawsuit against Los Angeles Unified School District. The ACLU and National Center for Lesbian Rights are representing us along with two students and a counselor from Washington Prep High School. And what the facts of that case involve are administrators and teachers being the perpetrators of the harassment against gay, lesbian, bisexual students at the school, which is just outrageous. And it's outrageous that students harass other students and that certainly creates a hostile educational environment but it's even worse when we think about the people that we're trusting our young people to are the ones calling them sinners or faggots in the classroom. So we had to take action because other steps had been exhausted, other complaint processes had been exhausted, and we needed to file a lawsuit. So we're hopeful that we're gonna get a good outcome in that case that will result in some real changes in how those students feel safe and how the administrators understand their obligation to all the students. - Well, Vanessa, you're what we in the business call an RP which is real person, someone who really is in school, is a youth, I guess. It's such a funny thing to be called a youth because all it means is that you're younger than somebody else, like me. But I know that you really made a decision and have been very much of a leader in activism. But that can't have been the thing that happened to you, like, in the first instance. Tell us a little about kind of what led you, in your school, to decide that somebody had to do something about something. - Okay, well, in my district there are no Gay-Straight Alliances. In fact, there's no representation for LGBT youth at all. I live in Orange County. So my best friend is actually also LGBT and we came upon the idea that we should get more active, we should be involved, we should start making a difference, you know, from the bottom-up. But it really just gave a lot of purpose for me. It made me feel like, you know, if we can't go out there, we can't find adults that support us, we can't, you know, we don't know where to go for help, we have to start here. We have to be the help that we want other people to be for us. - So what was it like at our school? - Our administration completely shot us down in the beginning. When they came out for the Club Rush Week, they took our club papers and they took them out of the ASB room, the associative state of body, and they wouldn't let them review it. So the assistant principal took us to his room and he probably discussed it with the district lawyers. They're like, "Do we have to let this club go there?" And of course they do, because of AB five through seven. So and they want to receive government funding, of course, so they did let our club pass. But we still have our posters torn down, not just by students, but by administration. And, I mean, it's an ongoing struggle, but every day we make progress. - So are there many students involved? I mean, I know you're in junior college now, but in your high school, kind of where you started this, are there many students involved? - Yes, there's a day every year called the day of silence and at our school, we had over 200 students participate. Our school has 2,000 students, so that's 10%, which is a great showing. I think that our school's become more progressive and it's become a much safer environment for LGBT youth. It's become more of the cool thing at school. You know, like, "Oh, you don't support LGBT youth? "What's wrong with you?" You know? It's like, everyone should get involved. We have tons of straight allies at my high school which is great. - Do you think that makes a difference for the kinds of kids that we were talking about? I mean, it's sort of a theme that weaves through this. You're feeling very isolated, nobody's on your side, you don't know anybody to talk to. You think, you know, there's no sense in living. I don't know whether you would say, "Yes, I know a person "that decided not to kill themselves "because there are other people there." - [Vanessa] Well, I do. - [Sheila] You do? - Yes, yeah. We actually had a student in our school that came up to us after we started the club and said, "Thank you so much," and was in tears. And, I mean, it totally made it meaningful for the club to have been started because somebody was represented that we wouldn't have even known about. And students would always come out to my best friend in the beginning. They're like, "Oh, I am, but don't tell anyone, "but it feels really good to know someone else," you know, just having that support. - So has it made a difference in your life? You kind of alluded to the fact that it kind of gave meaning, but say more about that. - Well, I think that for a lot of times I would wake up in the morning and not have any meaning, not feel like, to feel like life was just going through every day. It was monotonous, it was meaningless. But when I found this cause, I went up to San Francisco for a summer to intern at Lyric, which is a non-profit. Are they a non-profit? - [Sheila] Yeah. - Yeah, up north. And it was a service organization. So I mean, I started with them and from there I went to GSA Network and I joined their Youth Council and the governing board. And I started going to conferences, workshops, trainings. It was just amazing. It was such a great experience. It really made me an activist for life. And then they were like a stepping stone to other organizations like Liberty Hill. You know, it's just been a really great experience all around. - So do you go to other schools or work with kids from other schools and what have you seen as an experience around the state or places that you've gone? Like, good stuff and bad stuff? - We've been to, we visit several schools. We've gone, we have a private schools with GSAs and then we also have a lot of public schools. But from visiting the schools I have, or it's students from their GSAs, they always come together at conferences. And they're always talking, they just feel so great and free. But then, you know, they go back to your school and they discuss about how, you know, it's like having to go back into this very oppressed situation where they feel like there's a lot of weight on their shoulders, they can't be who they are. And then when they come to these conferences, you know, held by GSA Network and other things, they just feel like they're free, they can be who they are. They don't feel isolated, they find friends. There's this comradery, you know? - Well, it's been the case with activism for a long time. We felt that way with anti-war activism. And when I was in, I think in middle school, we were collecting money for the Freedom Riders and, you know, it just, I mean, be careful, you could end up spending your whole life in public service. - [Vanessa] That's okay. (Carolyn and Sheila laughing) That's a good thing. - You don't make a billion bucks, but the truth is, I think that it's a very important thing just for the reason that you said. That it kind of enables your life to mean something. - And it's priceless, you know? - It is. So what, you know, if people are watching the show and they don't have a GSA in their school, or they do, but they're not connecting with the administration, what advice would you give them? - Find an ally, a faculty member or an administrator. Ask them to be your representation, just because you need an adult to start a club. And from there, in California, for a public school, from there you can start a club. But just to stay strong and it will come through. You know, things will get better. - I think it's a great message. I also wanna kind of weave these themes together in a way because if you do a show and it's supposed to be about young people, and then you kind of, you take, you know, one subject in terms of a suicide hotline and the GSA Network, and a particular school's experience, what does this mean though, for the experience of LGBT youth, generally, in terms of what you've seen and what it's like in the country now? You may not feel you're the expert but I want you to say what you think anyway. - I mean, my sense is that we're really at a point of change. I think, while we're still seeing, in fact, increases of young people calling and needing a suicide hotline. We also are seeing, at the same time, you know, this incredibly empowering grassroots movement that's happening with young people as well, who are getting empowered. And then, I mean, I always think about the fact that there's young people who, they've never been in the closet, they don't even know what the closet is. I mean, they figured out their sexual orientation and then they just told everyone about it, you know? And it was just a normal part of adolescent development. So but at the same time, and depending on sort of if you're in the blue states or the red states, you know, wherever you are in terms of the kind of the social environment and the political environment, it can really make a difference for how a young person gets treated and whether or not they feel like they have access to support services or an opportunity to be involved in activism. So I think we're really in a time of flux around this issue. - Well, there's such a continuum. You know, we think things are so much better than they were because you can come out and not get, you know, shot. But I don't know if it feels that way when you're in the middle of it and it still feels, as you said, you know, they go back into a very oppressive atmosphere and even if there is a GSA, you know? Or what do you--? - Well, and based on that and what Vanessa was saying about the going back and feeling that way, we get the calls every day. We know kids are out there. Even though they're seeing the Will and Graces, and they're seeing shows that, "Queer Eye for the Straight Guy", whatever it may be, it is in the media, but there's still a lot of teens that aren't comfortable talking. I mean, there's still the family that they have to deal with, the whole religious element to it. And we need all these groups. We need the Lyrics that you were talking about. We need the GSAs because once we get them through what we need to keep them alive, we need to be able to refer them somewhere where they don't feel that isolation, so that they have some support. But it's still a reality, unfortunately. And the good thing is that there are a lot more resources now than ever before for teens to lead, hopefully, a normal, healthy life. - What kind of resources are available? I mean, you don't have to say, since we're a national show, some of it, we'll put the hotline number on there, and I think the GSA Network, and any other phone numbers we want at the end. But what kinds of sorts of resources do you find that have come into existence that are very helpful? And I wanna hear from like, everybody. - Well, I think we're seeing, really, the whole, you mentioned a continuum and I think we're starting to see a real continuum of the kinds of resources that exist for young people. I mean, certainly an explosion of resources on the internet, which is helping young people who are in geographically more isolated areas. And then in every urban center and increasingly in the suburbs in the smaller towns, we're starting to see, you know, LGBT centers, community centers, and LGBT youth-specific organizations and resources. I know there's been a huge growth in the last 15 years of those kinds of resources so that it exists in the community and also in your school so that if you don't have access as a young person to go to something in your community, you could call an 800 talk line, you can look on the internet, and you can go to something at your own school. So I think that whole range of services that are starting to exist for young people is really making a big difference. - Have things changed in Orange County? - Yes, we actually have an LGBT center in Orange County. Very hidden, looks like a business office. (everyone chuckling) Yeah, we actually have Orange County Bonfires. There's going to be an Orange County training. I mean, everything's changing, especially with the media, even though they're still in a misrepresentation of LGBT in the media. You know, it's definitely helping, you know, be able to see LGBT on the TV and seeing it in the peer, seeing it in the classroom. It's, you know, yeah. - It also seems to me, a much more racially diverse movement. I think young people generally have been much better about that every generation. It's kind of like, you know, in my generation, my parents used to always talk about which country in Western Europe everybody came from. These were the Germans and these were the Italians, and these were the Irish, and it was very serious. There were gangs and all kinds of stuff at the beginning of the last century. And then when we moved to California, it's like we didn't know who was what, really. We sorta knew because of their name, but it became like nothing, eventually, over, frankly, 100 years. So do you find it's much more diverse in terms of the LGBT youth movement, too? - Yes, I definitely do. It's definitely not only just a movement for LGBT youth, but also for LGBT youth of color. You know, we have several campaigns working. For example, I did a workshop once called LGBT of Color where we actually learned about people of color, which is amazing because, I mean, when I was younger, I didn't know anybody besides white people could possibly be LGBT. You know, it was shocking to me. I'm like, "Oh my god." Yeah, so. - Yeah, the majority of the youth that we're working with in California are youth of color, that are in the Gay-Straight Alliances and it didn't used to be that way. I mean, when GSAs first started, and I think when a lot of the LGBT youth services first started in the last decade or two, it was mostly white youth. And there was a perception that Vanessa's talking about, that, you know, and then if you look at representations in the media, you still predominantly see LGBT people are white. And so we're really working to change that intentionally around the schools that we're working in that we're very focused on working in schools that serve low income youth and youth of color. - And I, to that point, think it's very important because statistics still show that among teens of color that identify themselves as LGBT, the isolation, they have a lot more to overcome. Unlike racial where someone can see pretty much off the bat what someone's race might be, they still have to overcome stereotypes in that way, let alone what they're feeling about their own feelings that they're having to hide and internalize. So if they are perceived as a minority race and LGBT, it adds to that. So it's very good to hear that you are focusing on that and that's great. - One of the things that was always a problem when we were organizing in high school and in college was that people were there and then they'd left. So that it's almost like term limits, you know, that we have in the legislature. It's kind of like you just learned how to do it, now you're gone. Do you find that that's an issue around GSA leadership? - Yeah, it's a huge issue just in general for GSAs. And maybe Vanessa can talk about how you guys have dealt with that in your own school. - [Sheila] Yeah, you left, what happened? - Well, several GSAs have this day called Bring a Freshman Day and that's where all the upper classmen bring a freshman in so that the club can continue on and still be as resilient as the activism is in this country. - And I imagine people are still in touch with each other. I mean, it's like you didn't just vanish. - I'm still very much a part of the Southern California Youth Council and the board, and I'm always trying to do whatever I can, especially for my high school. - Yeah, and we try to, in our leadership trainings that we do on the weekends and at conferences, we try to train young people around how to think intentionally about transitioning your leadership so that if you're a senior and you've been the president of the GSA club, that you've identified a junior or a sophomore, or somebody who's gonna take on the work after you're gone, and that you actually mentor them into that role. So I think, and Bring a Freshman Day, and really building the membership is a really key part of the work that the GSAs need to do. - Well there's always been a sort of question about whether that's not a good thing anyway in terms of transition because where you don't have built-in transition, sometimes you have you know, the people who founded an activist organization and they're the ones that run it for the next 20 years and they haven't taught anybody anything. So in a way, you have a very dynamic situation, here. But I wonder where there's much of a connection. Vanessa's indicating that it made a big difference in her life. Trevor Project is dealing with people who are trying to decide whether they even want to get up tomorrow. So in terms of the resources that we were talking about, I imagine you're talking about sort of counseling et cetera. But do you find any connection in terms of people who have no hope kind of gaining hope but also looking towards activism? I mean, I can't even formulate the question but I'm thinking it's another place where people can kind of find themselves. - Definitely. Most of the kids feel, like I said before, that they're they only ones that are going through that I think just knowing that there are groups like GSA, like Lyrics, like Glistens, there's so many groups out there, knowing that there are other teens like them and, you know, just getting them in that frame of mind that there are many like them helps. And so there's definitely, you know, how they turn towards activism, we don't really monitor that. We hope that through the course of keeping them alive and we'd certainly hear back from them, who say, you know, thank you for talking with me, thank you for being there. And we hope that they then turn to their schools and to others that may be feeling that because there's some great organizations. And when you look at a teen that may be kicked out of a home, you're talkin' 48 hours before they turn to very risky behavior. And knowing that there are groups that they can turn to and teens that they can talk with I think definitely gives them that hope to stay alive another day. - Well that risky behavior you're talking about, we just did a show last month about AIDS and about high risk behavior and sort of not caring or not thinking about it. Is that an issue for very young people, too? I imagine, I mean, everybody's sexually active, probably, or most people, anyway. How do you talk to young people about these sort of life and death issues like HIV and AIDS? - Well, you know, one of the things that a lot of young people in California that we're working with are starting to look at is, with the passage of SB71, another one of your great pieces of legislation, young people are really inspired by that to say okay, we have to have comprehensive sexual health education in our schools and that sex education can't discriminate against us based on any of the protective categories in the education code which includes sexual orientation and gender identity. So a curriculum needs to be relevant for young people. But it's not, I mean, the vast majority of schools don't have any education that our young, gay or lesbian, or bisexual, or transgender person feels relates to their own life and the information that they need that's potentially life-saving information. So young people are starting to get organized around that issue, as well. And going to the sex ed teachers and saying you've gotta include me in this, as well. - Well in California, one of the things we ran into is no school district is required to have sex ed in the curriculum. It was one of those compromises a long time ago. But they are required to have HIV AIDS education in the curriculum. So this bill that we did kind of tried to put all of those mandates for these poor school districts, I mean, really, imagine trying to obey that law that's scattered all over, all the different codes, in one place and make it consistent so that parents had the right to see the curriculum, they have a right to say I don't want my kid to take those classes, or whatever. We changed it so that they don't have to say I do want my kid, but rather, you know, opt out, but just to make it consistent. But you know, here we are up in the legislature imagining that this all makes a difference. Okay, you were just there. Does this kind of education make a difference? - It definitely does 'cause we go into health class and the number one thing they teach us, abstinence, and, you know, that doesn't work for us because we're allowed to get married. How can we wait, how do we know when's the right time? So I've always stressed safe sex, just knowing what you're getting into, being responsible enough to handle whatever you're doing and to know your information. - So it could be a real connection, really, when we're talking about discrimination stuff and health issues in terms of education. 'Cause really, when you talk about youth, you're kind of mostly talking about schools in terms of where everybody has to be every day. That reminds me, is there a dropout factor, too? - [Jorge] Sure is. - [Carolyn] Yeah, there is a huge dropout factor. A number of studies have shown that. One that comes to mind is the most recently, you know, Jorge was talking about the CDC requiring states to do certain studies every two years. And in California, the California Healthy Kids Survey serves that function. And we found, we analyzed data from the California Healthy Kids Survey that, a couple of years ago, for the very first time asked students if they had been, in the last 12 months, harassed or bullied based on their sexual orientation because somebody thought they were gay or lesbian, even if they aren't. And those students that said yes they had been bullied because of their perceived or actual sexual orientation were more likely to skip class because they felt unsafe at school, which is generally connected to ultimately, if you continue to feel unsafe, you're more likely to drop out. And of course, it was related to some of the things that Jorge had talked about, feeling depressed, feeling suicidal, abusing alcohol and drugs. So we see all of those health risks and academic risks. And those students also reported, on the whole, that they had lower grades. So there's real consequences for young people that are being harassed when teachers and administrators don't intervene. - So do you hear stories about dropping out of school? - All the time. We have teens who call us because they're afraid to go to school. And the majority of our calls come right after school when the kids have been harassed, when they've been beaten up, whatever the situation may be. And it says a lot about what's still going on in the schools, you know, or the lack of what should be going on. But it's pretty horrific, I mean, the numbers. 40% of teens that were surveyed recently said that. You know, LGBT teens said that they were harassed verbally. 30% were followed home. A good 20% were beaten up. It's pretty awful. The numbers are bad. One of the things that makes a huge difference in a teen feeling safe is having role models. And GSA identifying an advisor, a teacher, someone that they can go to, that's important. PFLAG, another great organization that's all over the United States is a good partner of ours. And where teens don't feel comfortable going to a gay and lesbian center, identifying with someone at a PFLAG, as an adult, that they can talk with is very important, as well. But yeah, the dropout rate is pretty scary. They're afraid to go to school. - You know, one of the things that I think I've seen over the long course of my life is when you were saying a lot of people don't wanna talk to people about stuff 'cause they think they would embarrass them, most of the people watching this show are probably gonna be adults. It might be young adults or middle age, or whatever. And I guess I'd like you to say if you think of things that people can do, not necessarily in the large organizational sense, but kind of in their own lives if there are any, things that you would say, you know, to the audience. You might run into these kids, you might know these kids. What would you do? What would you like them to do? - Well, go ahead. - Anybody. - I've got lots of ideas. - Anybody and everybody. - You know what, I think that creating an atmosphere of acceptance is really important. Just in our organization's history, been around for seven years, we changed our mission statement from tolerance for gay and questioning, to acceptance of gay and questioning teens, which really, we should be. And I think something as simple as someone overhearing a joke that involves a gay thing to it, to say something, because it's offensive. And teens identify that as, "I'm to be laughed at. "I'm to be ridiculed, there isn't a place for me." I just think as adults, as young adults, I think we can have a huge impact on how we respond to what's being said around us. - You know, one of the things that I'm thinking about is, you know, most adults have some kind of connection to a school, the school they went to, themselves, the school their kids are at, the school they're employed by in some capacity, and so getting active as adults and becoming advocates within your school system. And frankly, getting more folks that agree with what we're trying to do to make school safe, get them elected to the school board because a lot of decisions are made by school board members around these issues in terms of when cases come up before a school board or a situation, complaints are made about harassment. And we need parents and we need adults to become better advocates for young people around this issue. And then I also think, you know, the other idea is donate to all the organizations that are working on this issue, including ours, but all of them, because that really makes a difference, you know? - What would you say, Vanessa? - Acceptance, of course. Another good idea was Carolyn's. But mostly just letting them know that there are other options, that people are around, that people do understand. I mean, just knowing that someone is there makes a lot of it, you know, a lot different. - A lot of times we don't mess into peoples' lives. I'm really thinking this is really true about saying I don't want to embarrass them, they may not be ready to come out to me yet. I mean, we all know kids, I mean, 12, 13 years old and you go, "He's gay," you know? He is not saying it yet. He's probably wondering about it. You know, she's a baby dyke, just is. And she may not know it yet or wanna talk about it. And it's easy for me because I'm totally out and I'm seen kind of in the media. But there are a lot of people watching who wonder, you know, what can they do. I mean, they may be working with kids and not even know whether these kids are having a hard time or not. I mean, it's kind of hard to open a conversation, sometimes, with a kid. - You can positively reflect on social issues that are going on, like, you know, equal rights, same sex marriage. You can just leave little hints like, "You know, I really think it's wrong "what Bush is trying to do right now," and just try to be really subtle about it and see the way they're reacting to it. You don't have to be like, "What's wrong with you? "Are you gay? "Tell me now. "What can I do?" - [Sheila] Yeah, exactly. - Just try to be more subtle and, you know, hopefully when they're looking for someone, they'll know they can come to you because they know your stance on the situation. - So what has really, I didn't really ask you very much, Jorge, about your own history. How did you come to get involved with Trevor Project? - I actually went to a benefit that they had four years ago and was very moved by the words that were being said, and frankly, very horrified at the statistics. And I never knew about 'em. You know, suicide is one of those things that's still considered a family secret. People don't like to talk about it. And when you look at the World Health Organization that reports that every, you know, 15 minutes in the United States, someone commits suicide. Those are some big numbers there. So I was, and it reminded me of a friend of mine that actually committed suicide when he was in his teens. Never knew why, never understood. He seemed to have everything going for him. And it really hit home that perhaps it was something I could do with Trevor. And I've enjoyed every minute of it so far. - Well, I think it's the best way, actually, to live. It was wonderful running some 501 C3s and I can't wait to get back to it, when I'm-- - When we're ready to let you go. (group laughing) - Oh, okay, but you know, term limits, I'll be there some day. So what have you seen in terms of the leaders that you were talking about? 'Cause we wonder whether, I don't know exactly what a leadership training kind of is. What kinds of things do you emphasize in a leadership training? And then as you've seen young people go through, graduate, and you said they're kind of still out in the world doing this. What are they doing? - The leadership trainings, we really start it at a basic level around how do you run, how do you facilitate a meeting of your Gay-Straight Alliance Club? How do you get it started? Develop a mission statement and a purpose and set goals, and create action plans. And then we walk students through the process of grassroots organizing and identifying your allies, thinking about who might oppose you and what you can do to counter that. And then teaching and doing political education with young people about understanding different kinds of oppressions and how some of the oppressions are intersecting in their own lives and in their own identities. So we're developing some consciousness for your people around the social and political realm and then also building their own skillset so that they know how to go out there an fund-raise and run meetings, and teach, you know, train teachers and lobby in front of their school board, all kinds of skills that are needed to make changes in an institution. And so what we're seeing is that those young people are taking those skills and that experience of sort of an entree into being a social change agent. And then they're going on and they may be working on marriage equality or other LGBT civil rights work. Or they may be going on to do environmental justice work or anti-war organizing, or what have you. But the kernel of the experience is when they get, they first come to that Gay-Straight Alliance Club and they realize that they have a voice. And they can use that voice to make a change in their community. It helps their own life or their friend's life if they're a straight ally and they've come to support their friend. And then they see that reverberate in other arenas in the world. - It's interesting that people don't know what a different they're gonna make. I mean, you can't look ahead. You really only know kind of what you've done. And people say to me who were your role models. And they're always kind of surprised because, and maybe I'll ask you, because we're in the last five minutes already, of the show. But when I was at UCLA as an undergraduate, John Kennedy was campaigning for president. And I really had never heard of the guy. He was from Massachusetts and I knew he was running for president, but people seemed to be kind of excited about the fact that he was there. So I went to Royce Hall to hear him and you couldn't get in. It was completely full. So they were broadcasting his remarks and it was a campaign speech. It wasn't one of those famous one, you know, that's written down. So I stood in Royce Quad and I listened. I think I was 19 at the time. And it just changed my life just hearing him talk. Just exactly the way you were talking about, Vanessa, where you talk about something being important, social justice being important to you or whatever. My other hero was Jimmy Dean because he was a rebel. I mean, he really did what he thought was right and he tried to have a code, even in a crazy world as a young person. So I've got two big posters of those two guys up on my wall It's sort of a strange, talk about the odd couple. (Carolyn and Jorge chuckling) JFK and Jimmy Dean. But in my generation, not everybody felt the same way, but that was sort of what did it for me. Did you have anybody to look up to or are you really your own hero? Which is a good thing, too. - I definitely wouldn't say I'm my own hero. There are a lot of people that I look up to, whether it be political leaders or even authors of books that I've loved. But I really can't point out one. You know, I'm sitting between two people I actually look up to. And that's not to kiss your butt or anything. (everyone laughing) - I feel fine about it. - [Carolyn] Keep going though. (everyone laughing) - I mean, it's the truth. - How 'bout you, Carolyn? - You know, I would actually say, and I don't want this to sound corny, but I actually get a lot of inspiration every day from all the young people that I work with. And starting seven years ago, the girl who inspired me to start a Gay-Straight Alliance Network when she had started a GSA, extremely brave, young soul to do that, and just intuitively knew what it meant to make a difference in the world. And I've seen, I've met hundreds and hundreds of young people that are doing the same thing. And I'm so grateful for the privilege of getting to work with them and be part of an organization that they're leading. - Jorge? - Well, it's hard to point one also. I mean, I think at different times in my life, I've looked to different people as role models. I will always see my parents as great role models who taught me to love one's self, to work hard, to make a difference in whatever you choose to do, to never think back and think I could've done this but to get out there and do it. But I'm constantly inspired by the young kids today, the LGBT teens who are out there like Vanessa and just like, "I'm gonna do it," regardless of what the consequences are. I grew up in Texas. They shoot ya down, let me tell you, you're so... It's very inspiring and I look to those kids and they, you know, I hold them up on a pedestal. Good for them. - Well I am in awe of the three of you. I'm so happy that you joined us for the show. I'm really happy that you joined us for the show too, because, you know, it looks like young people are leading the way and we'd better get used to it. (soft music)