AV Geeks 16mm Lunch 11-5-2025

Hello everybody. I'm Skip Alzheimer. Welcome to the AV Geeks lunchtime streaming show where we watch old 16 mm films. And that was from a serial. S E R I A L. Um, Hazards of Helen. Was that it? But uh this was a particular installment called Leap from the Water Tower that was shown in theaters and supposedly this genre was very popular. There were quite a few um heroins who uh worked at a telegraph office at a uh railroad station. So it's kind of interesting to see. So this was later shot from 35 down to 16 and then distributed via Blackhawk Films uh which was a big home movie uh distributor who made a lot of things for home movie watching. They did a lot of stuff with Sylon Films uh and some other things which I will talk about later. Um yeah I guess there's a theme today. See if you can guess what it is. This is magic rails to yesterday. Enjoy. [music] [bell] >> [music] [music] >> This is San Francisco in the year 1905. And over these cable car rails, we begin our journey into yesterday. It is a time of beginnings. The day of the automobile has just dawned. And their proud owners drive them erratically, sputteringly, and enthusiastically in our path. Towering in the distance stands the newly built ferry building, terminus for the many busy ferry boats flying, numbering the gasoline buggies by a whopping 1,000 to one. A sleeping giant called electricity is stirring in unrest and a street car powered by that invisible force crosses our path. Nearly everyone thought that neither electricity or the automobile could ever replace the horse. To be sure, even the cable car could not replace the horse car. There goes one of them now, clip-clopping its way up Market Street and on toward history and oblivion. A last glimpse of a busy city as a fateful day in 1906 [music] approached. Earthquake and fire leveled most [music] of the city and a whole world was stunned. As we ride down Market Street on an electric car, it is through a city in ruin. [music] Gaunt iron skeletons surround us. Debris is piled high. Its citizens plot along. And the sight of the ferry building, still standing unscathed, [music] seems a beacon of hope and a promise of a better tomorrow. Today, a half century later, we pause on Market Street for a last look at the ferry building, now just a symbol. It is our final privilege to take the last ferry boat to depart. For they too are now a part of the past, another memory. From the deck, a panorama unfolds. For the San Francisco of our age is one of beauty. A mighty auto freeway cuts across our path as if to borrow us from our return to yesterday. The bridge under which we sail is the giant that doomed the picturesque fairies. [music] At the Oakland Mole, we join other travelers and once more find our magic rails and a new friend, the mighty dieselhauled train. Undisputed monarch of rail travel, ready to speed us over the many miles to yesterday. [music] [music] A gleaming silver train is our magic carpet. Reversing the steps of the pioneers, we move [music] eastward and enter the Feather River Canyon to take the long climb over the Sierra Nevada mountains. This area is just as rugged and challenging as it was in the days of 49. Yet gliding along smoothly in comfort, it is just the beauty that we encounter. >> [music] >> In the heart of these rugged [music] mountains at Quincy, California, we are met in salute by one of the last of the oldtime shortline railroads. Friends have [music] gathered, for this is the last time that old number eight will meet the mainline train, for [music] it has reached journeys end, yet it has come to that end over its entire 6 mi of track with [music] great dignity. As we glide by, the blast of its steam whistle fills the air, and its bell tolls out no notes of sadness, but a farewell filled with joy to speed us on our way to those yesterdays that lie over the far horizon. As the miles unroll, we pass over the awesome deserts of Nevada, magnificent in their scope, with great white clouds overhead, holding only the promise of rain, a promise rarely fulfilled in this arid land. >> [music] >> Our twin ribbons of steel enter Utah and a land of dazzling white. For this is another type of desert, [music] one of salt extending for miles in every direction. It is here that a mirage may take the form of a mountain, city, or lake, and the reality and imagery joined forces to challenge the minds of the westward moving pioneers. As salt desert melds into the waters of the Great Salt Lake, we pass a great inland sea with no outlet. 2,600 m in area with over 6 million tons of salt held in solution in its waters. On its shore is Salt Lake City, where the Mormon leader Brigham Young halted with his group of travelers in 1847. The temple square with its tabernacle and temple dominate the city's center. A monument marks the spot where he spoke. This is the place. In the mountains, just south of the city, the world's largest open pit mine, 2,160 ft in depth, which as a theater could seat over 9 million people. In its pit could be placed side by side. [music] the Yankee Stadium, the Rose Bowl, Cotton Bowl, Orange Bowl, Madison Square Garden, and leave room for several 5,000 car parking lots. Its giant terraces [music] are ore levels forming a magnificent pattern of graceful curves crisscrossed by a network of rails over which electric trains carry the copper ore. Entering Colorado, we realize that a changing world has set aside some of the [music] important things that built the West. For it was here that the far-off echo of the locomotive's whistle heralded the advance of civilization along the steel rails. [music] It was inevitable that some of these paths were to crumble into dust. But first, they serve to carry untold numbers across our country. We have entered the domain of the narrow gauge, where at one time the 14,000 ft mountains were laced with thousands of miles of rails and highways were unknown. Our guidepost here seems almost as a monument to a forgotten day. Yet, it beckons us to move over the hill where adventure waits. At Durango, Colorado, 10 coaches of the Denver and Rio Grands Silverton stand on the last 50 miles of narrow gauge track in the United States. The railroad depot is jammed with hundreds of travelers from all over the world, not to seek uranium or silver or gold, but just to buy the ticket that will carry them into yesterday. A busy agent faces a growing crowd, and the 400 seats are soon sold out, a daily occurrence. The train is jammed to its eaves, yet more and more climb aboard. An 8- foot long ticket holds up loading for a moment as the conductor searches for the right coupon. It's only [music] outdated by 87 years, but it's surely good for one more ride. We start the last leg of our journey, leaving behind some disappointed travelers. But tomorrow is another day for them. Today is yesterday for us. Leaving Durango in the morning sunlight, the little engine seems eager for the job, climbing the almost three-mile peaks of the mountain range ahead. [music] First comes breakfast aboard the Silverton, and every car is a diner. The friendly conductor and his breakman act as co-hosts. The service is speedy and unique. Railroad coffee and donuts for old and young. Underway with the locomotive puffing along, the roaded is hidden by undergrowth and trees. [music] Each road crossing finds groups of people who couldn't get aboard but cheer us onward. Approaching the canyon of the Lasanimas River, river of lost souls, the rails cling to the side of a rocky cliff with a sheer drop to the river beneath. Inside the train, everyone rushes to the window for a better view, but some couples find time for romance and books. Air conditioning on the Silverton is [music] automatic for every window and door is left wide open. And the nostalgic and pleasant aroma that can only come from a cold burning steam engine adds pleasure. Even the bare necessities of life get an assist from the conductor. [music] Deeper and deeper and higher and higher. With a rock and roll beat, we chug into the high country. The surrounding peaks soar to over 14,000 ft. Within the locomotive cab, the fireman works constantly as coal must be shoveled by hand into the roaring firebox. Each shovel full gives forth a belch of black smoke, a tribute to a tireless coal heaver. Steam must be kept high for the climb is ever upward. [music] [music] Second only to its appetite is the ravenous thirst of the little engine. And it [music] is thus that we approach a stop, one that has completely vanished from American railroading. The water stop. For almost a century, these water tanks were landmarks across the United States. The fireman reaches the water tender and lowers the spout. Cool mountain water pours in and spills over. >> [music] [music] >> More and more coal is shoveled into the firebox. And we climb our last few miles through the mountains. For yesterday is just around the next bend. We enter a setting of fantastic beauty. Silverton, Colorado. An unspoiled jewel in its fantastic setting, linked to the present by the last of the narrow gauge. As the train halts, the 400 [music] passengers eagerly climb out. This is the yesterday that they have sought. Time has been kind, and the crisp mountain air has seemingly arrested the ravages of age, for the buildings of Silverton are authentic and genuine. Suddenly, Silverton comes to life, and a lively life indeed, for in moments, notorious Blair Street is full of blazing action. A gun battle starts in front of the bent elbow, and miners and mules scurry to safety. The whine of bullets fills the air. A desperado on the balcony is a target for the gunman below. But first, he takes mortal toll before he slumps over the rail. The street is littered with dead in a matter of seconds, and the coroner goes about measuring the deceased for a fitting burial. As peace [music] is restored, the visitors breathe easily once more and gaze and wonder at these relics of the past. The Bonton Garter Shop features an outdoor fitting by the proprietor displaying the newest in ladies corets. [music] A wedding at the church complete with shotgun. [music] The Grand Imperial Hotel still lives up to its name [music] in luxurious splendor and is still the meeting place for the polite and elite of mountain society. The doings of Silverton are still chronicled in their daily newspaper as they have been for over 75 years. What stories of a great and glorious past lies buried in these yellowing files? The trivial and the important dying together yesterday and today. The county courthouse holds the secrets of many men, of failures, of success, of justice, of [music] violence. Meanwhile, back on Blair Street, life goes on, but not without problems. It appears that the Chinese laundry man needs a modern hearing aid. A few steps away, all is quiet at the Rocky Mountain Stage Depot. But watch closely. Villain is a foot. Before you can take a [music] deep breath, a robbery gets underway. The sheriff and posi arrive. Two men are shot, two captured. The money in strong box rescued. Mighty fast work even [music] out west. What irony, the stolen money just out of reach of the dead man's hand. And what nonchalants, [music] a corpse that winks, huddled together for safety, the visitors photograph every suspenseful moment. Wait a minute. That stage depot [music] robber wasn't dead, just slightly dying. So the posi drags him up to the Silverton jail and there behind iron bars in a scene of moving realism he passes [music] into the great beyond just as he does every day about the same time. The strong silent men of Silverton nail down the wooden sidewalks before anyone tries to steal them as well. In the peaks that surround Silverton, untold [music] wealth lies hidden. The mines that once produced gold, silver, and lead are deserted. But the ore is still buried deep, awaiting a newer day. [music] As days end draws near, the tiny locomotive with its string of coaches moves slowly out of Silverton along those magic rails that [music] carried us back to yesterday. Each coach filled with passengers and memories of the past. The lonely echo of the locomotive whistle is carried back through the canyons. A deep throatated promise to return on another tomorrow. [music] Yeah, that was great. Um, so quite coincidentally, we're going to revisit Silver Silverton with the last film, and I'll talk more about that when I get there. But first, we're going to go to Albany, New York briefly. In November [music] 1971, the state of New York held two auctions in two weeks trying to get rid of a colossal [music] white elephant. Alby's Union Station, closed in 1968, had no tracks, no rightway. Vandals had carried off virtually everything, even the copper roof. Bids for the building and land were to start at a modest $320,000. The press hovered about, anxious to see who would be the next owner of one of Alby's grandest landmarks. Not a single bidder came. [music] Union Station held on through a dozen winters, soaked and crumbling as rain and snow ate away the once ornate interior. In the press, [music] the words restore and recycle came up. But so did the word demolish. Although the building was on the National Register of Historic Places, the terms of sale did not preclude tearing it down. Or would the once vital Union Station vanish to make room for another downtown parking lot? Architects and preservationists warned Union Station must have a new roof fast to survive another winter. New York State's Office of General Services, custodian of the granite white elephant, erected a temporary roof in 1979. Now, the building could at least weather the elements in forlorn dignity while awaiting a buyer or simply a use. The second decade of waiting began. There was much talk, but little action. Millions of people had been served by Alby's Union Station. But who now would pay millions of dollars to bring it back to life. Then, just as circumstances seemed most unpromising, a buyer stepped forward. I was in here one afternoon in January 1984, and my assistant got on the intercom and said Peter Kieran was outside. So, I welcomed Peter in and he went over and sat on the couch over here, had still had his coat on, and he said, "Um, I was thinking last night about all the things that are happening in downtown Auburn." And he said, "What would you think about Northstar showing an interest in Union Station?" Well, it took me a few minutes to recover, and I said, "That would be fantastic." And it was based on that conversation that the two of us had that Peter then went down, contacted the state, looked at Union Station, and decided to do it. This was exciting news. But as interest in the purchase revived, so did the skepticism. Over the years, there had been a long series of conferences and articles announcing yet another solution or purchaser for Union Station. But this time it was for real. Northstar Bank Corp. a major bank holding company, was the largest corporation headquartered in the city. The name Northstar was strongly identified with downtown Albany. The purchase would bring the headquarters back into the heart of the financial district. But the high hopes were confronted with the evident high cost of the renovation. The repair work ahead was enormous. For use as corporate offices, the building would have to be modified, but in a manner compatible with its historic character. Northstar's roots extend deep [music] into Alby's history. Founded in 1803, Northstar's progenitor, the State Bank of Albany, was a leader in underwriting the development of transportation in America. In 1817, [music] the bank advanced the enormous sum of $600,000, the equivalent of perhaps half a billion dollars today for the Eerie Canal. [music] 1829 saw the financing of the right of way for the Mohawk and Hudson Railroad, the first line of what would become the New York Central under the direction of Eraus [music] Corning, formerly a State Bank of Albany officer handling railroad investments. The bank, sensitive to its ties with the past, preserved the original 1804 [music] facade when expanding its building in 1927. In 1985, the Bank's holding company, Northstar, would preserve another even grander Albany landmark. >> This is an exciting project. Our strategic planning for the city has emphasized the importance of joint development efforts by both the public and the private sectors. In effect, Northstar is a partner in bringing back a critical district of downtown Albany. >> But returning the station to life has been a demanding project requiring a balance between a number of concerns. [snorts] The federal department of the interior is concerned that old buildings which deserve careful preservation may be altered unsympathetically in commercial conversions. We realize that the new owner has to utilize space efficiently, but we also recognize that these preservation guidelines exist for legitimate public reasons. The complex and delicate task of properly adapting the station to its new use was given to the Albany architecture and engineering firm Einhorn Yaffy Prescott. The demands of this project certainly include preservation but go far beyond it. The two major planning challenges we faced were first due to Northstar space requirements. We had to nearly double the existing floor area and yet retain the original interior. And second, because the building is to function as a state-of-the-art corporate headquarters, we had to interface the extremely sophisticated mechanical, electrical, and computer technology with the building's historic architectural features, not allowing one to compromise or dominate the other. Union Station is standing today because it is assuming a new function for the future. a new function carefully inserted into a significant historic landmark. >> The first step was to determine what elements, both structural and ornamental, could be saved and reused. The task of restoring the elegant plaster work was undertaken by Bob Sweeney of Dovetail Incorporated from Lowel, Massachusetts. It proved to be no small chore. So you can get a section at least three feet wide of all the patterns, but make sure you get a repeat pattern. Okay. >> Sounding the ceiling revealed the extent of the damage and determined [music] how much of the original plaster work could be saved and what needed to be replaced. [music] Samples of repeat patterns of decorative motifs were cut for use as models in making molds to cast replacement pieces. Water damage to the impressive medallions meant that they too must be taken down and recast. After gingerely chipping, sawing, and cutting for the better part of a day, the crew freed one from its anchor of 85 years and slowly lowered it to the floor until this was not going to be a simple renovation. The structural work began [music] in earnest. [music] New functional demands for the building [music] meant completely restructuring the interior. >> [music] >> In the wings, three floors were made into four. The splendid cast iron [music] facads were cut away from their supports and gently swung to the opposite side temporarily [music] while new steel was erected to raise and widen the mezzanines. The entire floor of the center space was [music] raised one complete story. Usable floor space was nearly [music] doubled. Computer facilities on the ground level were made secure and yet the spaciousness of the [music] grand lobby was preserved. The results were masterful. [music] The lobby, even though dimensionally smaller, retained its majestic character. We felt initially that raising the floor could possibly destroy the sense of space in the central lobby, but that phase of the renovation was very well conceived and executed. >> For over a month, the dovetail crew had been slowly, painstakingly [music] recarving, repairing, and reshaping the fallen medallion until finally it was ready. The excitement began to build as [music] the mold material was brushed on. A strong plaster shell was laid over the mold to serve as a support for [music] the casting process. Once dry, the shell and mold were pulled away from the original cartou. Turned over and the casting process started. The true [music] test was at hand. Would the plaster hold for such a large single piece? Would it be light enough yet strong enough? There was a collective sigh of relief. The largest casting Dovetail had ever made was perfect. Once the euphoria [music] had died down, it was time to get on with the thousands of production pieces that would be needed. The creation [music] of the pieces was one thing. Installing them was another. Originally in 1899, each piece was created on site and custom fitted to the steel or form of the building. Dovetail provided us with pieces of production castings that enabled us to replace what was missing or damaged of the original ceiling. to assist us in installing this ceiling. We've chosen a fellow named Ben Soap who helped us with the local craftsman in installing virtually thousands of pieces. Because the pieces from Dovetail were all made the same, there was a great deal of cutting, fitting, and scribing to be done to make the spacing appear even. And it is our job as in installers to recut and frame and fit these castings so that when they're finished, they read exactly what you saw originally when you took trains from this station. It's then the job of the plaster to come back and then to actually fill in the the cracks as the old masters did years ago with a plaster forming the configuration of the shape. The cartou carefully transported from Lel was ready to assume its lofty perch. Now completely restored, the plaster was ready for painting. Eight shades of gray were used to accentuate the shapes of the coffers, dentals, and moldings. The detail throughout was highlighted with a combination of Dutch metal and gold paint. Clearly, an extraordinary building was taking shape. Importantly, it gives us a chance to salute the craftsmen who are engaged in this challenging job of restoring and rehabbing this building. >> Northstar chairman and president Peter D. Kieran in the 1985 onsite progress report to the media officials and guests asked rhetorically if it were true that they don't make them the way they used to. Addressing the builders, he said that they in 1898 included many immigrant craftsmen and laborers. Kieran reflected on the vision of one of those Irishmen coming back. >> Fellow named Mike Murphy who came in with his three grandchildren during the depths of the depression and he brought them to the station and he said, "You see that line up there? I made that. I made that with my own hands. I want you to remember that and come in here and see it once in a while. That was your grandfather's work. Now today, as we go about adapting this building to new purposes, modifying, trying to maintain the character and the grandeur of the original, they is you. You men and women who are putting your abilities to this job of transformation. Maybe you haven't sculpted a lion's head, but each of you in your own professional way is sculpting a contribution which I hope your grandchildren will come to see. The hopes and early excitement of the prospect of saving [music] the building were realized and infectious enthusiasm did indeed overtake everyone working on the project. Choreography was a big part of the job. The process seems linear. clean out, build up, clean up. In reality, the renovation faced a maze of permits, licenses, and compliances. Decisions had to be made promptly and delicately. Chimneys, for instance, originally there were two tall, thin chimneys on the south wing. They were quite elaborate with uh granite blocks and ornamentation around the top. These chimneys serve the kitchen. The only problem is that our boilers are in the north wing. That's where we need one large chimney. Strict preservation would argue against that chimney, instead wanting us to leave the two original chimneys now unneeded in place on the south wing. So, we propose to dismantle the two chimneys on the south wing and reassemble the same blocks and decoration into one large chimney on the north wing. The Department of the Interior finally approved that. It was quite a job, but everyone is satisfied. Now, figure two or three dilemmas like that coming up every week, and you'll get an idea for what adaptive use restoration is like. Adaptive use [music] is a concept that serves as a vital link to our past. Reborn as Northstar Plaza, Union Station will soon be back in [music] service of the city and its citizens. Northstar will shortly begin its third century of business in Albany. There is no more fitting place for us to be than in this building. [music] >> [music] [music] [music] >> I mean I uh you know I the fact that the bank did it and then this is the the PR puff piece about the restoration. I am cynical, but it is beautiful and it was an amazing project. Um, and uh, anytime that a a grand station, train station has been renovated, it it generally is is quite stunning and beautiful. And I'm a big fan of that. And I'm a big fan of public transportation and and rail, specifically rail transportation. And um I watch YouTube videos where people in Japan or Japanese people go and ride uh railroad trains uh all across the world. Um and the United States is not doing so hot. It's not great as far as uh our infrastructure and um our version of highspeed rail is not great compared to Japan or China or Europe even. Um and so I look forward to that time where I might be able to get on a train and uh very quickly make my way to DC or the Northeast. Um, but speaking of which, speaking of a fan, uh, so I mentioned there's a tie-in with the first two films that I show with this this last film. So, this film was shot by a, uh, train enthusiast and also uh, amateur slash professional filmmaker named Fred McCloud. and he was based in Pittsburgh and a lot of his collection went to Pittsburgh filmmakers which ultimately ended up with Oregon archive and uh he would shoot he was a super fan of uh old u locomotives and railroads and so he would shoot a bunch of it for first of all for himself because he was an enthusiast and for other enthusiasts that he knew but also he sold footage to Blackhawk So, we showed a Blackhawk film initially and uh so this footage I don't know if he shot this and meant it for um Blackhawk but then decided to self um promote it or I don't even know if this was distributed uh but this is uh a trip on the Silverton railroad [laughter] that we saw mentioned mentioned in the magic reals yesterday. Quite coincidentally, like I I I picked the Fred McCloud film first and I was I pulled films about trains um to kind of complement it. But this one turned out to be the exact same train that is talked about in that previous film. And so this is in color, beautifully shot, and he there's no narration. There's just ambient sounds of the train, of people on the train, of uh I think he talks to an engineer. Uh and it's 40 minutes long. And so I don't know if you can tolerate it, but uh I'm just going to let it run until um the number of people watching diminishes to less than 10. Uh and maybe it won't. I don't know. We'll see. Uh otherwise, I will post this separately on our YouTube channel. But here is fan trip to Silverton. Fred Mccclaude made this and he explains in um text what's going on. Enjoy. Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat. First step on the gas pack. That's our state now. >> Yeah, that was something. Come on. Keep going. Fred, if you got any pictures of Lennox, >> are you are you Fred? >> Yeah, Fred. This is Betty and Allen. That's Fred Mloud. Yes, because he saw he said Joy. >> I had no idea that you were that lucky. >> I don't know whether he has the picture of me or not. >> Whether I got one of them, I don't remember. >> I probably do have one. nothing on him. >> He just had a tape on him too. Fastest, not fastest. He just felt >> become a national so many of the mothers play golf. Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat. Hello. That's it. Heat. Heat. What the world? That's where the cow catcher comes in handy. kicked off something there. >> How do you do, sir? >> I got a ticket. >> Well, I'll have to wait. I'll have to look here. Will I do? >> Well, I don't know if that'll do or not. >> It isn't punched. >> It is. >> Uhuh. Well, I'll punch it. >> Punch it for me. >> All right. >> Thank you. Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat. about two minutes. Wait a minute. >> They get so excited about taking pictures. And I was telling my husband one time about >> just don't get too close to it. He always says nobody does. awful hard to get any kind of >> I had the engine coming through and Show my father. Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat. just now. >> I haven't any idea what they call that big filler out there. We know it's not lizard head. >> No, not lizard head. >> This is the time of year the aspen are most beautiful though. >> Uh-huh. It's always gorgeous up here. >> A mantel of delicate green. >> Such far away views I've never seen. >> Take a look down here, too. >> Mhm. >> 500 ft. >> 500 ft down. >> There's a tote. Tot. That's the tote gorge over straight over there. >> Oh, that is >> that's something I want to get. >> Toe tac gorge. >> We come to mister. Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat. That one back up farther. Get the engine. Yeah, that's that. three. All right. Thank you very much. You're welcome. That was a nice run. Heat. Heat. All leveled up. Some of the mountain there what they got up there. >> Yeah. You know what they have up there? Challengers. Big boy under steam. >> I don't know if they got under steam or not. >> Maybe going up. I don't understand. still running. I guess it's off. Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat. Let me know when you're going to start. Yeah, I know. I'm running. All right. [bell] Okay. Oh my god. Come on. [bell] >> [bell] [music] >> Get that man. Okay, Fred. Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat. Hey, heat up. Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat up here. Heat. Heat. Sorry. There we are. Good. The Heat. Heat. Give me a glass. I can get a glass. Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat. Hooray! We did it. That makes me so happy to see um all the people that were still watching this at the end. It's about the same as when we first started watching it. So, uh yeah, that is Fred Mccclad and we have more uh by him um that we'll be uh maybe showing in the future. But um I very much like and the more I watch it, the more I think that it was probably um made just for him and his uh railroad locomotive enthusiast friends uh because of the sound. um and he just kind of let stuff go, you know, um and wasn't really edited into a piece beyond um you know, just the having the credits at the beginning. Uh so yeah, thanks everybody for watching. If you like what you saw, hit the thumbs up, hit the like. Um some someone I think it was Nathan donated via the super thanks button. You can do that. Also, you can support us via ko-fi.com/avgeeks or patreon.comavgeeks. Those are great ways to support us as well. So, everybody have a great rest of your day and we'll see you soon. Bye. How do I get out of this place?