NFO-39 (AV10446): US Farm Report: Challenge to Rural America

[music] this program is brought to you in the interest of agriculture rural business and the well-being of our nation we have as our special guest today Dr. E.W. Mueller of the national Lutheran Council professor George Donahue of the University of Minnesota Vince Rossiter president of the Bank of Huntington in Hartington Nebraska and Arnold Paulson chairman of the committee for rural economic survival from Granite Falls Minnesota good afternoon I'm E.W. Mueller as it's been announced and my particular assignment with the national lutheran council but to refer to as the rural sector by the rural sector I mean the rural areas but more than just the small towns I would like to include all the cities of 10,000 and less in the non-metropolitan counties when you add all these together this gives us a total about 70 million people those of us in this panel is afternoon our concern is the future of this particular sector of our society and there many conferences being held and discussions are taking place and different views are being presented and then these views are conflicting views for instance that some say just let the thing go and the problem of go away others take the view that the only solution to the farm problem or the economic problems that we have in this rural sector can be solved by the government programs and then others say that the farmer himself or rural people themselves need to take take the initiative and to solve their own problems now I'd like to turn to Vince and ask him whether according to his observation as a banker in Nebraska whether he thinks that in time that the problem will go away no Dr. Mueller I certainly don't think the problem will go away I think this problem will live with us as long as we ignore it and perhaps it could be longer I'm satisfied that unless the people of rural America and the farmer and the rural businessmen and the government engage in a some kind of a an overall program that they can work in comfortably together that this problem is going to remain with us for a long long time or at least as long as the people last however long may the last well the view of the attitude that we do find in rural areas among this people in this rural sector do you think that they have the capacity or the willingness or the desire to work across interest groups the farmer working with a businessman and the businessman working with professional people and somehow coming up with a joint program you are as a sociologist Pres. Donahue did you have any observation at this point I would think of willingness to consider the problem is a first step to some type of social action directed to the resolution of the problem but I think even more than that awareness of the problem that's where I think there's a lot of work to be done we assume that people are aware of problems when they actually are not the problems have never been made known to them really they're very much concerned with their individual activities and they sometimes fail to see the forest as they look at each individual tree and quite often we blame people for not taking action when they really have no basis for taking action and I think really an educational program on the part of people who are engaged in education with the farm people that would include bankers such as yourself Vince it would include ministers such as you, E.W. and certainly businessmen such as Arnold Paulson to become involved in the developing of knowledge on the problem so that people will be able to make intelligent decisions about which way they must act is it possible for us to say whether the problem is primarily economic or primarily social would you have any judgment that point well I think whether it's primarily social or economic depends in part upon each individual's perspective some people will see it an economic problem others as a social problem but let's back up you often hear this problem cited and I'm sure you've heard this Vince correct me if I'm wrong as being a dual problem one of the problems one of the definitions is that it's it's a commercial farm problem of the upper income farm groups that is an income problem and an economic problem but the problem of the lower income farm groups is really a problem considered a welfare problem or some people even call it a relief problem then the other point of view is that these power problems are part of the rural community problem as a whole and that one cannot be dealt with successfully unless they're both dealt with so I would say that it has social implications it has political implications it has economic implications and I'm sure it has religious implications well I'd like to suggest George that many of the social problems are the outgrowth of the underlying economic problem this true that is we would have fewer social problems if we had a more affluent society in rural America shall we say if we had for example a general expansion of income and profit in the agricultural economy when this solve some of the social aspects of the overall problem I think it would solve some of the social aspects of the overall problem but not all of them in other words take one of the problems that the sociological problem is the organization of educational institutions in rural areas there are many rural areas where the organization of education is not on an integrated level there are still areas in which the one-room school system is very apparent this school system by most objective criteria is not competitive with a consolidated school system offering a wider range of courses and not only that offering more competitive salaries to teachers to teach in those schools so while I think upper- increases in incomes in rural areas might help to alleviate this problem it might not help to develop a problem of reorganization of rural areas which would lead to the resolution of some of these social problems supposed to pull in the long term problem it might well do that at this very point where people in the smaller communities really have some problems the words they have some basic adjustments to me they have made the adjustment at least from my observation in the area of making a living they've gone from horse agriculture to tractor agriculture and is very highly efficient agriculture which has changed our agricultural pattern but when it comes to making the adjustments in the area of like you mentioned the school or social institutions we have a kicker problem in the area of the church in our churches were established in rural America at a time when people either drove to church or walk to church now they have made the adjustments in the area of making a living but now when it comes to the area of making the similar adjustments in the area of merging churches or merging schools or consolidating at this point we get resistance because I think here sort of self-interest teams to conflict or with their with their movements you know I don't want to take all your time or an office on this program but I'd like to talk to that point because the point you make is that they have made economic adjustments or technological adjustments but they haven't made the adjustments in social innovations and institutions is well taken but it could be sort of an error of omission rather than error of commission by that I mean actually I don't think they have made the adjustment to making a living certain elements of the rural economy have made this adjustment they've become more efficient and some of them have gained a return greater than that which they've had before but I would also maintain that there's a large segment of the rural community through the very birth through the very process of technological adjustment are making less today than they made in the past for instance Minnesota has 38 of its 87 counties where the median farm income is under $3,000 now I think these people have not made the adjustment while the technology of farming has been adjusted by many of the farmers they are sort of a residual category in the face of this ongoing technological process and they remain there as somewhat as you might say the remains carrying forth the burdens of this adjustment but those that have made the adjustments and I would say these are the part of the more progressive farmers they are the ones however that have influenced community structure they have a had an imp have resulted their adjustments resulted in less farms less people which means that we need less school in the life another area which I think they are having difficulty to make adjustments and that is in the past they're sort of in tension between the farmer and the people in the small town or on Main Street I think what we need here is a new image of town and country by town and country I mean not just the open country no village but we need to see this the farmer and the man on Main Street is being a part of the same web of human activity and they need to begin to think together and how they can think in terms of building a more adequate life or a more meaningful life for the people in our rural sector now Arnold you come from a small community and I understand you have been looking in this area what is some of your experience that you have in getting town people and farm people working together well thank you Dr. Mueller I'd like to endorse the previous statement that our biggest problem today is the problem of education making people realize that this problem actually exists I think it stems from the fact that too few of the people living in rural America have any understanding whatsoever of the theory or the status of economics they don't realize where their wealth is created they don't have a proper understanding of whether money comes from and how it's spent and the effect that the various segments of our economy has on one another the small town businessmen the farmer the banker the church the entire community we're all riding in the same together and the biggest problem that we have in rural America today is the problem of education making people bringing people to an awareness that this problem does exist and that it's affecting each and every one of us and unless we can know and understand that this problem does exist we can't attack it from from any position and so we must make the people in rural America aware that our way of life is being threatened now whether or not there's anything we can do about this to preserve it is another thing after listening to the Orthodox economists today and the statistician and so forth I've come to the conclusion that the problem is even more serious than we have been painting it and unless the people in rural America are willing to make a study to get together and learn more about this problem that's going to affect their way of life then I think it's hopeless to to try to solve the thing and therefore education is essential today who has this responsibility to create this awareness it's not grand that there is no awareness on the part of people as to what the real problems are now we have many organizations many good organizations that are very active in the rural field and they represent represent various points of view but I would make the observation that often these groups are meeting separately with themselves persons here we made lists to mention a few here is the very good organization the REA which I think it's very powerful organization and then another court ization we have real American an effective job in the area of soil conservation smell conservation districts then we have farm organizations and yet then we have the Chamber of Commerce as a small town do these groups talk past each other or do they complement each other or do they sometimes undo the things that they are doing other words we need to do I think it's plow around the field the same direction I'll observe that sometimes it's not the case I've seen this particularly probably with the cooperative's farm groups in the light novel as a churchman I would like to call for a more a sense of reconciliation these various groups beginning to see this as having a mutual problem it doesn't necessarily mean they have to just have one organization but I do think it's important that they share views but again I raise the question as who really takes the lead and how do we get this thing done I'd like to inject just one thought on that subject we have a diversion of thinking amongst the farm groups and this is where the problem actually exists and in my viewpoint from the standpoint of a rural businessman it is a responsibility of the businessmen and the civic leaders in that community to make sure that the economic standards of that community are growing rather than dying but due to the fact that the farmers themselves and their own organizations can't agree the businessmen of rural communities are actually afraid to take a stand and fear of losing a customer and this is one of the problem of businessmen and unless these businessmen will take the courage and offer the leadership of getting farmers and businessmen and church leaders and school superintendents together so that we can discuss this problem as a group and reach some type of conclusion there isn't much hope well let's take a very concrete situation here the standpoint of agreeing and businessmen not taking a stand now that we have mentioned economic problem farmers are not receiving an adequate income for that which they produce and that effort says they sell now there is a problem there is a program being proposed by a group to through more adequate bargaining and to marketing to give the farmer a more adequate income but at this point you get a real clash of interest we have observed at this of a difference of opinion at on this approach sometimes divides communities and sometimes divided even some of our church groups or a congregation I would say here's where I think we as in people living in rural areas need to grow up and become a tool I would say there is always more than one approach there's more than one viewpoint and that there are different points of view this is not bad but I think it's bad when we permit a different point of view or a different approach if there's another person kind of different person mind but therefore I get angry at him as a person and I think here I think the business people could make me help to clarify this or discuss this but I just bring this into I think some of the lack of the proper attitudes that we have in rural areas and who again it calls educates the program but the question again who takes the initiative I think you're talking here Dr. Mueller about an adult educational program and I think in the rural communities I noticed too in mine thinking and the community becomes pretty rigidify pretty stratified everybody's had about the same opinion for a number of years they're not about to change it and I don't know but what in this in this area we might practice a little some of the ecumenical spirit and perhaps it is an area and let's the clergy can between themselves and the various denominations draw out the different individuals and let them examine each other's point of view for a change now I know that many communities are close to universities and they have the benefit of the college professors who thought these things through pretty carefully we don't in our particular area and perhaps this is a place where the clergy could enter in to kind of moderate a an open discussion on this problem and perhaps we can learn from one another some of the things that we're trying to ignore now to preserve our way of life in rural America which is really going to cost us our way of life if we continue to ignore it about that George I think I would second your last statement and I don't know but we might have a vote of approval from this group on the panel at the point that we may sacrifice our rural way of life when we try to defend it in terms of the status quo and I think you've hit upon another important point that goes back to something that Arnold was speaking about before and that is and you also aw we're talking about the who is going to lead this I'm not the most optimistic individual in the world about the leadership in rural area taking up this problem and working with it in an enthusiastic fashion for this reason if some changes are involved the very people who have positions of leadership now may have to think of forms of social organization and patterns of activity which would make them somewhat less important than they are presently and they feel threatened by the fact that these changes may threaten their position if I were a superintendent of a school or president of a bank or a minister in a congregation and I felt that an effective organization of the rural community meant that I had to merge my operation with another school system in another community so that the greatest benefit could be obtained by the people of the rural community and as a result I'd be an assistant superintendent I might think twice because I perhaps would rather be a superintendent in a small school than an assistance superintendent in a large school or a president in a small bank rather than a vice president in a large bank in other words I think there's a lot of ego, invested interest involved in this problem on the part of leadership and I think that leaders look to their position of leadership in terms of the vested interests rather than in terms of the public trust that is vested in them as business leaders religious leaders educational leaders or whatever type of leadership they have so while I say I'm not optimistic I'm not pessimistic either I think that the leadership will have to rise to the occasion it's not going to happen on the part of followers the leadership is going to have to become aware and you're gonna have to to take action programs directed towards resolving the problem did I ask professor Donahue one question this afternoon you made a statement about too many of the rural communities are living in false hope thinking they're going to solve their problems by attracting industry I think you've made a very good statement this afternoon if you can recall it that's right if I can recall it what I indicated I think was that not every rural community that is in existence today is going to be able to attract industry certain communities with particular locational features and particularly those above 2,000 and size depending upon the size of the communities in the area it might be a community of 1,000 in size for that matter depending on whether or not there are large or smaller communities around it if it's the largest single community and it's only 1,000 then it probably will be the one that will grow but I think that the distance between communities today their location to markets are not such that they will necessarily result in high degrees of industrialization or high amount of acceptance of them as locational sites for industry it the location of industry is such that it will go to where other subcontractors are located or skills are already located in the area therefore I say the traditional rural Trade Center was dedicated to small family type subsistence farming we not only have to change the type of farming but we have to change the social institutions and the communities that go along with it now this is not the most optimistic for people who have identified with the community and it's not going to occur overnight this is an issue that we have to discuss because I was a too often that we tend to think that's only the town that has the industries when it benefits now I was as many of our small towns ought to work together with neighboring cities that are larger in the interest of getting industry to the area because this might benefit the town will benefit the city where the industry is located but it can also benefit the satellite town if the area was in driving distance and we tend to let distance be a barrier but I think instead of talking about a 30 a distance community we ought to think in terms of a time community person just think in terms of a of a 30 minute community this takes in a lot of territory and just recently I was in a situation in Iowa where a small town was located about halfway in between two larger towns very aggressive town and it was 20 miles each way and and the question was now should this little town work for industry but they'd made a very wise decision they thought they would explore the possibility of just being a bedroom town for the two towns that were a city that were to both sides of them both had packing plants already many were working there so I think the point of trying to get at is that there are things that people can do together and instead of fighting each other if they will begin to see the larger picture you see the bigger picture then I think many positive things come can come out of this and there are many good things going for rural America and I think we probably ought to emphasize some of these and and not take too pessimistic an attitude this does not mean that we will not have to make adjustments and then you have to change some of the structure that we had in the past but it does mean that if there is some vision and if people get together and begin to establish some goals that there may be some real possibility of realizing you know you've made a statement there that I don't like to pin you down but you said anything goes on this program right I'd like to ask you a question you said rural America has many good things going for it would you mind naming five all right get me going on five but I would say number one they have space there's one thing that we don't have in Chicago and that is space crowded conditions another thing that you have going for you in rural America is fresh air in this matter of an environmental situation that we have in Chicago is becoming a real concern the air is being polluted they have a water problem sometimes and the I would say we have other things going for us in rural America that they have the possibility of people knowing each other first I mean on a first name basis and the mall at the informal community now there's many negative things in rural America this mission three but I would say that was other things could be going for rural American it was looked at basically I don't think we have really looked at working at Queens I would call a quality community and now this will mean investing some of our efforts and some of our thinking is embarked our think powered here and I am I am encouraged but what is happening as a result of rulers development or resource development course it comes back to whether a community can afford it and this brings us back to the problem of we more less started is can we improve the economic flow of money into rural areas do this I think we have some more thing going for well I think Dr. Mueller that we might say we've got everything going for us in rural America except the one thing and that is the economic standard of living and that many of the things that we we know we have and surely the people in rural America know better than anybody else what we have to lose and if we ourselves are not willing to support the the thinking the planning and has to go in to maintaining our local economy and our rural America that we love so much then certainly nobody else is going to do it for us I think this is a very crucial thing that you mentioned this and I observe this to see we have an interest our self-interest conflicts with group interest and the thing which hurts is I think in rural areas is this that sometimes we merle people are not willing to what i call make a commitment to their group and as soon as their self-interest conflict with group interest they will sell out their group this is one reason why i think has been difficult for farm organization to really affect an effective farm organization because as soon as self-interest conflicts with the interests of the group or long-term self-interest they tend to vote for self-interest i think at this point we need to do a lot of educating kick to the standpoint of social responsibility and not just individual responsibility well we're getting close to be on the program and I think any you have you have something on your heart that you want to really get off before we sign off I do okay I I'll choose to be the devil's advocate here for this reason both you and Vince said rural America has an awful lot going for it you listed three for me E.W. and I would say if it has a lot going for it I'd like to see the rural leadership be able to list ten boom boom boom like that the other thing is I think they should not only list the 10 things going for it but the 10 things that are disadvantages of the area because here's where the problem will rest in terms of the disadvantages as well as the assets of the area and these are the things we'll which will have to be corrected if effective social action and development is to occur in the rural community of today well next time we meet we'll have 10 on [unclear] okay so this brings it put it close and I would appreciate your being on this program and sharing your views with us [music] this program has been brought to you by the members of the National Farmers Organization in this listening area the interest of agriculture rural business and the well-being of our nation for more information or suggestions on how to solve our farm problem contact this station